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This may be an odd question, but...
#11
(01-01-2015, 11:49 PM)TyroneShoes Wrote: Also, if I have a lazy off day and skip showering, I am not quite as...uhh...socially unacceptable as I used to be.
(01-01-2015, 07:23 PM)surferdude2 Wrote: Well then, another possibility is that we now have a higher testosterone level and with that comes the musky odor that attracts the opposite sex. Now that you bring it up, I have noticed the young chicks are paying extra attention to me lately. Yeah really! Some even in their early seventies seem to be enamored by my savoir faire and suave debonaire attitude/appearance. Banana oldman Banana
I am sure you must be quite irresistible.

I hope XPAP has not played hell with my pheromone output...I need all the help I can get. Thinking-about

Get some of that Axe body spray stuff, seems to work wonders on the commercials. Dielaughing

Better yet wear a wedding ring, and tell everyone you are happily married and will never stray. Laugh-a-lot
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#12
(01-01-2015, 07:23 PM)surferdude2 Wrote: Well then, another possibility is that we now have a higher testosterone level and with that comes the musky odor that attracts the opposite sex. Now that you bring it up, I have noticed the young chicks are paying extra attention to me lately. Yeah really! Some even in their early seventies seem to be enamored by my savoir faire and suave debonaire attitude/appearance. Banana oldman Banana

I've noticed (anecdotal) a relatively high incidence of males on XPAP therapy testing low enough for testosterone to require replacement therapy. So in some cases, that T is in a bottle, vile or gel. Dont-know
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#13
Reading this again, I at first missed the interesting part:

"Free radicals oxidise lipid acid to create lipid peroxide resulting in auto-oxidization casing body odor."

I always thought that body odor was due to growing bacteria metabolizing and breaking down sweat and giving off the odor. You know...if you go long enough, time to hose it all down. Antiperspirant works by shutting down sweat production; deodorant works by masking the odor, or by creating a local environment not conducive to these chemical processes moving forward, or both.

But according to her, it was the free radicals all along. If so, I fail to see how antiperspirant could even work, unless sweat is the catalyst. Actually, it sounds like oxygen might be the real culprit.

But, add this to the mix, from NCBI and NIH:

"Lipid peroxidation has been implicated in disease states such as atherosclerosis, IBD, ROP, BPD, asthma, Parkinson's disease, kidney damage, preeclampsia and others."

...which is the same argument against polyunsaturated margarine, trans fats, and hydrogenated vegetable oil (and why I use canola and olive oil exclusively). So maybe it's better to not skip that shower (certainly better for everyone else in the house).

So maybe add one more benefit to the list of benefits of XPAP therapy.

There was an experiment back in the day (Esquire magazine?) to see what not showering for 30 days could do to you, and it was halted halfway through because it was determined that 30 days could be lethal. Lethal. There are plenty of anecdotal tales of folks stranded without the ability to wash themselves for longer than this without it being all that problematic (they likely had larger issues to deal with), but it sure seems like something to avoid.
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#14
(01-02-2015, 12:00 AM)Sleeprider Wrote: ...

I've noticed (anecdotal) a relatively high incidence of males on XPAP therapy testing low enough for testosterone to require replacement therapy. So in some cases, that T is in a bottle, vile or gel. Dont-know
I am skeptical of this. Folks on XPAP therapy are more predisposed to be actively looking for answers to problems they may have (or imagine) that are medical in nature, so that group would naturally skew that direction anyway.

It is not much different from buying a BMW and then all of a sudden noticing all of the BMWs out there on the road.

Actually, I am skeptical of everything said in this thread, including what I have said. But on this one I really have to wait for a double-blind empirical study. Societies emerging on different continents saw completely different constellation images in the night sky, so we have to be wary of seeing patterns that are not really there.
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#15
Interesting about the 30 days, I mean there are so many 3rd world countries where people can go months without showering, so it makes you wonder.
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#16
Night sweats are quite common during apnea, so that may contribute by changing the quantity of sweat. Apart from just being stronger, the bacteria may grow differently when you're soaked vs. simply "dribbling."

Apnea might cause stress and chemical changes that change the trace chemicals in your sweat. Supposedly dogs can smell a lot of medical conditions in your sweat.
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#17
I am sure a (few) will find this both funny and strange...

Both prior to, and since being on my dream machine, I have never had a 'body odor' issue. Yes, I sweat, basically the same as the next guy I suppose, but yellow Dial bar soap is all I've ever used or needed, I have never, ever used any type of deodorant. If I were to skip a day or three of showers, my hair would not look so hot, but that's about it. All jokes aside, my lovely wife will verify this statement.

But to the question - it makes very good sense to me that the system change *could* cause something as described.
*I* am not a DOCTOR or any type of Health Care Professional. My thoughts/suggestions/ideas are strictly only my opinions.

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#18
(01-02-2015, 12:37 AM)TyroneShoes Wrote:
(01-02-2015, 12:00 AM)Sleeprider Wrote: ...

I've noticed (anecdotal) a relatively high incidence of males on XPAP therapy testing low enough for testosterone to require replacement therapy. So in some cases, that T is in a bottle, vile or gel. Dont-know
I am skeptical of this. Folks on XPAP therapy are more predisposed to be actively looking for answers to problems they may have (or imagine) that are medical in nature, so that group would naturally skew that direction anyway.

It is not much different from buying a BMW and then all of a sudden noticing all of the BMWs out there on the road.

Actually, I am skeptical of everything said in this thread, including what I have said. But on this one I really have to wait for a double-blind empirical study. Societies emerging on different continents saw completely different constellation images in the night sky, so we have to be wary of seeing patterns that are not really there.

Skepticism would be a healthy stance for this thread. I was responding to an unsubstantiated assertion that perhaps CPAP therapy was somehow raising testosterone, which seemed equally absurd. The symptoms of low T and sleep apnea are similar, as are the risk factors of excess weight and age. So it's not unexpected that hypogonadism would be more prevalent in this cohort than a control group depending on how the study was structured.
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#19
Tyrone - it is bacteria, not free radicals, that create body odour.

Human perspiration is largely odourless until it is fermented by bacteria that thrive in hot, humid environments. Body odour is influenced by the actions of the skin flora, including members of Corynebacterium, which manufacture enzymes called lipases that break down the lipids in sweat to create smaller molecules like butyric acid. These smaller molecules smell, and give body odour its characteristic aroma. Propionic acid (propanoic acid) is present in many sweat samples. This acid is a breakdown product of some amino acids by propionibacteria, which thrive in the ducts of adolescent and adult sebaceous glands. Because propionic acid is chemically similar to acetic acid with similar characteristics including odour, body odors may be identified as having a vinegar-like smell by certain people. 3-methyl butanoic acid is the other source of body odour as a result of actions of the bacteria Staphylococcus epidermidis, which is also present in several strong cheese types. All this is happening on the skin, and just inside the ducts, not inside the body.

Factors such as food, drink, and diseases can affect body odour to some extent. An individual's body odour is also influenced by lifestyle, sex, genetics, and medication. It is not affected, so far as we know, by PAP therapy. Deodorants can do harm than good, especially if they contain Aluminium chlorohydrate, which acts to block the glands function by building up a gel in the exit of the sweat gland. Over a long period of time this can be unhealthy. So get aluminium free deodorants if you can, and only use ones with Aluminium chlorohydrate if you suffer from excessive sweating.
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#20
Thanks, Doc; I defer to your expertise easily over the oversimplified explanation I quoted earlier (from a questionable source). And this means that I was right all along, so I have no issue jumping ship on the free radical theory, which never really made sense to me in the first place, other than how it does tie in to the whole lipid acid oxidization thing.

Where we differ is the statement "It is not affected, so far as we know, by PAP therapy." I think that must come with a caveat of "up until now". I think that is something that is difficult to measure, something no one has ever had the desire or inclination to study, and really something people would just rather not talk about anyway. Maybe I am just demented enough to be the first one to ever raise the question.

The change I am seeing here is pretty much completely obvious, and unless David Copperfield is pulling a fast one on us, it is pretty hard to discount in the face of such overwhelming evidence. And apparently I am not the only one experiencing this; we already have confirmation from a couple of others that they see this too, and only a small number of folks have even seen the thread at this point. It does not seem like a trick of our imaginations.

Of course it could be just coincidental that in all the numerous trips around the sun I have made that everything changes significantly one single time in this department at the exact same moment that I started XPAP therapy, but that is not very likely if you run the odds. So I have to believe this caused this change, at least until proven otherwise. Of course I just admonished everyone about seeing patterns that aren't really there, so rest assured I have that in mind also.

If the statement were "It is not affected...by PAP therapy." I would have a much larger issue with accepting it, as it seems that "as far as we know" might be the operative phrase here.

That said, it takes nothing away from my opinion of you as a chief resource here on the forum, and I always appreciate your thoughtful input and sage advice. This is the sort of thing that makes this forum better than, and sets this forum apart from, similar forums (and people just seem nicer here).

Thanks for contributing to my silly little thread. Thanks Great-info
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