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Tidal Volume Yep I searched but
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Ghost1958 Offline

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Posts: 957
Joined: Aug 2014

Machine: PRS1 Series Sixty Auto Aflex
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Eson
Humidifier: PRS1 with Heated Hose
CPAP Pressure: 10.5 min 16 max
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Moderate to Severe SA Obstructive. Rapid O2 desat off the machine.

Sex: Male
Location: KY

Post: #11
RE: Tidal Volume Yep I searched but
Thanks for all the responses. Helped me very much. Im still a bit puzzled by the wave form tops and bottoms only going to +22 and -22 when they always reached 26 before but that could be the software also.

Encorebasic doesnt show tidal volumes that I can find, though it does show a wave form report which from what I can tell doesnt look any different than it always has while SH does. So I reckon im not going to expire in my sleep LOL.

My wife would consider doing so on Christmas of all days to be in bad form and very ill mannered. Dielaughing
12-24-2014 01:17 PM
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vsheline Offline

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Posts: 1,908
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

Sex: Male
Location: California, USA

Post: #12
RE: Tidal Volume Yep I searched but
(12-24-2014 01:17 PM)Ghost1958 Wrote:  Im still a bit puzzled by the wave form tops and bottoms only going to +22 and -22 when they always reached 26 before but that could be the software also.

The slightly lower peak value of Flow shows that you are now breathing a little more slowly or a little less forcefully, for whatever reason.

Even though the peaks of your Flow waveform are a little smaller, your Tidal Volume could be the same or larger than before, and even the Minute Ventilation could be larger than before. Tidal Volume is determined by the average area under the Flow curve, not by just the peak of the Flow curve.

On the other hand, if your mask is venting or leaking more than before, I think your Flow might be under-reported.

Happy holidays,
--- Vaughn

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
(This post was last modified: 12-25-2014 04:23 AM by vsheline.)
12-24-2014 01:33 PM
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Ghost1958 Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 957
Joined: Aug 2014

Machine: PRS1 Series Sixty Auto Aflex
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Eson
Humidifier: PRS1 with Heated Hose
CPAP Pressure: 10.5 min 16 max
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Moderate to Severe SA Obstructive. Rapid O2 desat off the machine.

Sex: Male
Location: KY

Post: #13
RE: Tidal Volume Yep I searched but
(12-24-2014 01:33 PM)vsheline Wrote:  
(12-24-2014 01:17 PM)Ghost1958 Wrote:  Im still a bit puzzled by the wave form tops and bottoms only going to +22 and -22 when they always reached 26 before but that could be the software also.

The slightly lower peak value of Flow shows that you are now breathing a little more slowly or a little less forcefully, for whatever reason.

Your Tidal Volume could be the same or larger than before, and even the Minute Ventilation could be larger than before, even though the peak Flow rate is a little lower. Tidal Volume is determined by the average area under the Flow curve, not by just the peak of the Flow curve.

On the other hand, if your mask is venting or leaking more than before, your Flow might be under-reported.

Happy holidays,
--- Vaughn

Thanks Vaughn. The Eson doesnt vent as much as the simplus. And with it I have a very low incidence of leaks almost none. Total leak which is what my machine reports is normally very very close the vent rate for the Eson at the given pressure at the time.

Seems its no biggie now that Ive had you good folks splain it too me and figuring out that SH is saying Lpm instead of ml like it should.

My AHI is good I feel fine. Reported TV seems to be a bit low but it never ran 500 etc as a median since I started months ago anyway.. Always in the 400s now in the 360 380 range last few nights and my resp and min vent are right down the middle of normal like always.

So Ill just continue as is except tonight Im shutting down the Aflex. Always had it set on 1 but have no trouble breathing against the min 9 to max 18 pressures without it so experimenting a bit. Ive never hit 0.0 before though under 1 is normal for me. Figure if it aint broke Ill diddle with it a bit and see if it gets better or breaks LOL.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to yall. ThanksSleep-well
12-24-2014 09:54 PM
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DariaVader Offline
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Posts: 1,824
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Airfit P10 for Her
Humidifier: H5i humidifier with ClimateLine heated hose
CPAP Pressure: 8-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: diabetes II, Thyroidectomized, Primary Immune Deficiency, and the list goes on :P

Sex: Female
Location: Oregon

Post: #14
RE: Tidal Volume Yep I searched but
did I calculate correctly that a 160cm female should have a TV of 265 to 371? my median runs 420, 95% at 640 and with a max of 1600 over the last month. that is really off, but i confess i have no clue what it means
12-24-2014 10:06 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Posts: 3,851
Joined: Sep 2013

Machine: ResMed VPAP Auto (S9)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 18 IPAPmax - 11 EPAPmin, PS=5
CPAP Software: Other Software

Other Comments: μολὼν λαβέ

Sex: Male
Location: Калифорния

Post: #15
RE: Tidal Volume Yep I searched but
FYI: minute volume = Tidal Volume x Resp Rate (BPM.)
So, if your TV is 500ml (0.5 liter); and you BPM is 15, then your minute volume is 0.5 x 15 = 7.5 LPM

D-Vader: When did Oregon go metric? You're 5' 3"

Irrespective of height or sex, 500 ml is an average TV.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
12-24-2014 10:29 PM
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DariaVader Offline
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Posts: 1,824
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Airfit P10 for Her
Humidifier: H5i humidifier with ClimateLine heated hose
CPAP Pressure: 8-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: diabetes II, Thyroidectomized, Primary Immune Deficiency, and the list goes on :P

Sex: Female
Location: Oregon

Post: #16
RE: Tidal Volume Yep I searched but
(12-24-2014 10:29 PM)justMongo Wrote:  D-Vader: When did Oregon go metric? You're 5' 3"

yup, 5'3" and 160cm .... I live on the wild side Wink

the instructions Vaughn gave for finding expected had a ideal weight in kg for height * .005 to .007 for a range (???)
12-24-2014 10:50 PM
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Kadenz Offline

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Posts: 69
Joined: Apr 2012

Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: AirFit F10
Humidifier: AirSense 10 HumidAir
CPAP Pressure: Auto-CPAP
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: England

Post: #17
RE: Tidal Volume Yep I searched but
This exchange of posts sounds like it's very important, but was beyond my knowledge frontier (or, in plain language, I didn't quite follow it).

So please excuse what might be a stupid question. Is it better (in some sense & adjusting for size & weight) to breathe quickly or slowly; and deeply or shallowly?
12-25-2014 03:50 PM
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PaytonA Online
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Posts: 3,013
Joined: Dec 2013

Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #18
RE: Tidal Volume Yep I searched but
(12-25-2014 03:50 PM)Kadenz Wrote:  This exchange of posts sounds like it's very important, but was beyond my knowledge frontier (or, in plain language, I didn't quite follow it).

So please excuse what might be a stupid question. Is it better (in some sense & adjusting for size & weight) to breathe quickly or slowly; and deeply or shallowly?

My opinion is that it does not really matter as long as you are getting sufficient oxygen to your lungs. It would seem to me like the minute ventilation (the volume of air that gets to your lungs each minute) is the important thing.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
12-25-2014 05:46 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Posts: 3,851
Joined: Sep 2013

Machine: ResMed VPAP Auto (S9)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 18 IPAPmax - 11 EPAPmin, PS=5
CPAP Software: Other Software

Other Comments: μολὼν λαβέ

Sex: Male
Location: Калифорния

Post: #19
RE: Tidal Volume Yep I searched but
Rapid breathing will blow off too much CO2. It is called hyperventilation.
That shifts the pH of the blood slightly toward basic;
The pH shift constricts blood vessels and cause dizziness or even fainting.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
12-25-2014 06:58 PM
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PaytonA Online
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #20
RE: Tidal Volume Yep I searched but
(12-25-2014 06:58 PM)justMongo Wrote:  Rapid breathing will blow off too much CO2. It is called hyperventilation.
That shifts the pH of the blood slightly toward basic;
The pH shift constricts blood vessels and cause dizziness or even fainting.

Hyperventilation can be caused by slower deeper breaths also. I know because I have done that. You are right, Mongo. One needs to keep the correct amount of oxygen entering the lungs so there is probably some sort of correct range for minute ventilation for each person.

The dependence of the correct tidal volume on height and correct weight does not make much sense to me. I would think that the heavier one is the more air is needed to oxygenate all of the tissues and that also takes me back to thinking that minute ventilation is probably more important.

Just my thoughts.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
12-25-2014 11:38 PM
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