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[Treatment] CO2 and Central Apneas
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Steven Offline

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Posts: 92
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet (Mfg 10-18-11 in Aus) (Software Version SX474-0903)
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model:
Humidifier: ResMed H5i Humidifier (Mfg 11-16-11 in Aus) (Software ID SX496-0212)
CPAP Pressure: APAP 12 - 18 cmH2o
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: ResMed S9 AutoSet & H5i purch 12-22-11 but were both exchanged 1-31-12 for more recently mfg items

Sex: Male
Location: Southwest USA

Post: #11
RE: CO2 and Central Apneas
(03-06-2012 08:26 AM)dscbk Wrote:  I began my own research by closing off certain openings and controlling the remaining openings to slow down flow rate but keep pressure settings, thereby lowering O2 and increasing CO2. I was aware of going too far and getting into trouble, but have been able to survive and see on my SD card data that the CAs came down below 5, OAs controlling around 5 also based on pressures. I'm still tweaking settings trying to get good readings and be comfortable. I have a Dr. appt. in a week and will discuss (and I’m sure get reprimanded) but has anyone else got any info on this ? Thanks for any ideas and suggestions.

Dscbk

Well, there has to be a way to cull the idiots out of the herd.

Using the ResMed Mirage SoftGel Nasal Mask with a chinstrap

I do not use either the Ramp nor the EPR Comfort features

Have been on CPAP since December 1998

This is my 3rd machine

I use the ResMed ResScan Software (Version 3.16)
03-08-2012 02:57 PM
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dscbk Offline

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Posts: 6
Joined: Mar 2012

Machine: Respironics Pr one bipap
Mask Type: Full face mask
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Humidifier: unsure
CPAP Pressure: 14
CPAP Software: EncorePro

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Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #12
RE: CO2 and Central Apneas
Went to my dr. appt. He was justifiably horrified initially that I was changing my pressure settings without him, and then in amazement that I was also closing off some of the mask vents, but when he saw the results, he listened to me and agreed to do an overnight portable oximetry to make sure I was getting enough O2. I think he knew I wasn't going to comply with his normal instructions.

Just got the verbal results back from the oximetry and they said it was excellent. So I'm getting good O2 saturation, and AHI is about 5 (which is down from 35 where I started) which is still 50/50 centrals to obstructives. My settings are 17/16 on my bipap. I'm going to continue to tweak my settings and tweak my mask as long as my numbers stay good. Hopefully I'll start to actually feel a difference due to better sleep.

So I'm still sticking to my theory that the normal mask port designs and xpap machine contol schemes on pressure vs. flow rate generates high flow rates thru the masks which provides high O2 concentrations, but on the flip side can cause higher CAs for susceptible individuals due to CO2 blood level threshholds that are affected.
03-23-2012 10:42 AM
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greatunclebill Offline

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Posts: 549
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: Respironics System one Auto A-Flex
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model:
Humidifier: System one
CPAP Pressure: 8-12
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreViewer

Other Comments: quattro fx full face

Sex: Male
Location: L.A. (Lower Alabama)

Post: #13
RE: CO2 and Central Apneas
to believe this, i would have to hear it personally from my doctor and not rely on a posting on the internet from a stranger. sorry, nothing personal, i'm a natural born skeptic.

apparently you heard it from your doctor. good for you.
03-23-2012 10:56 AM
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Netskier Offline

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Posts: 125
Joined: Mar 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 Autoset, Mirage Quattro Full-Face Mask, Slimline tube.
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model:
Humidifier: H5i, but not being used.
CPAP Pressure: 6-13 cm H20; Ramp OFF.
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Currently studying Reversal of Aging.

Sex: Male
Location: Los Angeles South Bay, about 20 min South of Downtown LA.

Post: #14
RE: CO2 and Central Apneas
(03-23-2012 10:42 AM)dscbk Wrote:  Went to my dr. appt. He was justifiably horrified initially that I was changing my pressure settings without him, and then in amazement that I was also closing off some of the mask vents, but when he saw the results, he listened to me and agreed to do an overnight portable oximetry to make sure I was getting enough O2. I think he knew I wasn't going to comply with his normal instructions.

Just got the verbal results back from the oximetry and they said it was excellent. So I'm getting good O2 saturation, and AHI is about 5 (which is down from 35 where I started) which is still 50/50 centrals to obstructives. My settings are 17/16 on my bipap. I'm going to continue to tweak my settings and tweak my mask as long as my numbers stay good. Hopefully I'll start to actually feel a difference due to better sleep.

So I'm still sticking to my theory that the normal mask port designs and xpap machine contol schemes on pressure vs. flow rate generates high flow rates thru the masks which provides high O2 concentrations, but on the flip side can cause higher CAs for susceptible individuals due to CO2 blood level threshholds that are affected.

This is a fascinating thread. Thanks for starting and continuing it.

My age is none of my mind's business. --- Netskier
03-23-2012 04:34 PM
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clipper Offline

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Posts: 4
Joined: Mar 2012

Machine: REMstar A-Flex
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model:
Humidifier: System One
CPAP Pressure: 10-15 mm
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #15
RE: CO2 and Central Apneas
(03-07-2012 09:06 AM)dscbk Wrote:  I'll have to check leak rate numbers, but am pretty able to notice when it is leaking somewhere.

Yes, I'm blocking the vent ports and anti-asphyxia valve but leave an open nasal port open. This reduces the high flow rate through the mask but still leaves a small flow rate/anti asphyxia port to build up CO2 concentration.

That leads to my next question: is there an XPAP machine that hooks an O2 sat sensor into the machine and records it on the data card with the rest of the data ? That is what I really need to make sure I'm not reaching dangerous CO2 levels.


Thanks for any info.

I think it would be useful to determine if the CAs are correlated to drops in blood oxygen. If the CAs are not producing appreciable drops then, not a problem.
If the object is to raise carbon dioxide levels through PAP modification the vent should be moved some distance from the mask to produce a percentage of re-breathed air. This could be roughly calculated using the mask and hose volumes. Restricting the leak rate is not really addressing the objective.
As others have pointed out, you are venturing into unexplored territory and I would have someone awake and standing by to assure all is going well.
Good luck with your experiment.
03-24-2012 11:10 PM
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Netskier Offline

Members

Posts: 125
Joined: Mar 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 Autoset, Mirage Quattro Full-Face Mask, Slimline tube.
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model:
Humidifier: H5i, but not being used.
CPAP Pressure: 6-13 cm H20; Ramp OFF.
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Currently studying Reversal of Aging.

Sex: Male
Location: Los Angeles South Bay, about 20 min South of Downtown LA.

Post: #16
RE: CO2 and Central Apneas
(03-07-2012 09:06 AM)dscbk Wrote:  I'll have to check leak rate numbers, but am pretty able to notice when it is leaking somewhere.

Yes, I'm blocking the vent ports and anti-asphyxia valve but leave an open nasal port open. This reduces the high flow rate through the mask but still leaves a small flow rate/anti asphyxia port to build up CO2 concentration.

That leads to my next question: is there an XPAP machine that hooks an O2 sat sensor into the machine and records it on the data card with the rest of the data ? That is what I really need to make sure I'm not reaching dangerous CO2 levels.

Thanks for any info.

An oxygen sensor will not measure carbon dioxide. There exist sensors that will sense both gases, but they cost more. I have not yet learned about them.

In general, bilevel machines are more capable than xpap machines, so the better ones probably can handle gas partial pressure sensors. Sleepyhead has some support for oximetry, but I have not tried it yet because I don't have an O2 sensor yet, and a Doctor friend told me informally recently to go all the way and get a sensor to measure both gases because it would teach me so much more. But if Sleepyhead does not support CO2 measurements, then I still would not be able to learn my CO2 levels. I am convinced that measuring gas partial pressures will be the way to go in the near future, and perhaps now.

Does anyone know if Rescan can handle CO2 sensors, and whether Jedimark plans to add CO2 support to Sleepyhead?

My age is none of my mind's business. --- Netskier
03-25-2012 02:02 AM
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Ltmedic66 Offline

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Posts: 39
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: F&P Sleepstyle 604
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model:
Humidifier: Integrated in CPAP
CPAP Pressure: 11
CPAP Software: Not using software

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Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #17
RE: CO2 and Central Apneas
(03-25-2012 02:02 AM)Netskier Wrote:  
(03-07-2012 09:06 AM)dscbk Wrote:  I'll have to check leak rate numbers, but am pretty able to notice when it is leaking somewhere.

Yes, I'm blocking the vent ports and anti-asphyxia valve but leave an open nasal port open. This reduces the high flow rate through the mask but still leaves a small flow rate/anti asphyxia port to build up CO2 concentration.

That leads to my next question: is there an XPAP machine that hooks an O2 sat sensor into the machine and records it on the data card with the rest of the data ? That is what I really need to make sure I'm not reaching dangerous CO2 levels.

Thanks for any info.

An oxygen sensor will not measure carbon dioxide. There exist sensors that will sense both gases, but they cost more. I have not yet learned about them.

In general, bilevel machines are more capable than xpap machines, so the better ones probably can handle gas partial pressure sensors. Sleepyhead has some support for oximetry, but I have not tried it yet because I don't have an O2 sensor yet, and a Doctor friend told me informally recently to go all the way and get a sensor to measure both gases because it would teach me so much more. But if Sleepyhead does not support CO2 measurements, then I still would not be able to learn my CO2 levels. I am convinced that measuring gas partial pressures will be the way to go in the near future, and perhaps now.

Does anyone know if Rescan can handle CO2 sensors, and whether Jedimark plans to add CO2 support to Sleepyhead?

Blood oxygenation can be measured through the finger probe (pulse oximetry). CO2 is measured through exhaled air (capnography), which is what we wear the nasal cannula for during the sleep study. I am not aware of any kind of finger probe to measure CO2.
03-25-2012 07:52 AM
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jdireton Offline

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Posts: 149
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 Elite
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage FX
Humidifier: Resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 12
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: ClimateLine Hose

Sex: Male
Location: Florida

Post: #18
RE: CO2 and Central Apneas
I can only say that while I "hear" a whistle while on CPAP, I have asked my wife multiple times what she hears. Without exception, she asks me "What whistle?" I have to wonder if the noise is coming through the machine or through the hose.

Don't know, just commenting.
03-25-2012 12:22 PM
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stcrim Offline

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Posts: 26
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: ResMed S10
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Several kinds
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 7.5 to 12
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #19
RE: CO2 and Central Apneas
There is a real simple and safe solution here. Just apply a regular strength TheraVent. It slows the exhale and thus increases the Co2 level naturally. If it's not enough use the extra strength.

I modify the TheraVent by closing the center vent with tape and then with a leather punch making a new vent (2MM) in the center of each nostril.
11-09-2015 01:53 PM
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Weird Tolkienish Figure Offline

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Posts: 117
Joined: Sep 2015

Machine: Respironics Dream Station Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus FFM Medium
Humidifier: Respironics Dream Station Humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 15?
CPAP Software: Other Software

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Massachusetts

Post: #20
RE: CO2 and Central Apneas
(03-23-2012 10:42 AM)dscbk Wrote:  Went to my dr. appt. He was justifiably horrified initially that I was changing my pressure settings without him, and then in amazement that I was also closing off some of the mask vents, but when he saw the results, he listened to me and agreed to do an overnight portable oximetry to make sure I was getting enough O2. I think he knew I wasn't going to comply with his normal instructions.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you blocked the antiasphyxiation valve, that would only be "monitored" (ie by you dying) if the power went out right? Find it hard to believe your Doctor has hunky dory about that.

If something exists called an "antiasphyxiation valve" I ain't blocking it off, personally. Laugh-a-lot
(This post was last modified: 11-09-2015 02:31 PM by Weird Tolkienish Figure.)
11-09-2015 02:30 PM
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