Hello Guest, Welcome to Apnea Board !
As a guest, you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.
To post a message, you must create a free account using a valid email address.

or Create an Account


New Posts   Today's Posts

[Treatment] How do I stop periodic breathing???
#1
Surprised 
How can I stop or at least reduce the periodic breathing and associated CA's?

Background:
The first half of December my AHI was <1 every night, Last half was between 1 and 2 and sleep quality has been good. Leaks are well under control and 90% of all events are CAs. I don't think that is too bad considering the AHI numbers. When I have a bad night like this one, I am absolutely miserable and awake for half of the night. It makes for a long night. I am sure my oxygen level goes low too. I caught it one night at 85% but I am sure it was lower at the start.

My thoughts on possible fixes:
I am between a medium and large pillow. I think the medium fits better and stays put but I can breath better with the large. Leaks are not an issue with either.

When the periodic breathing starts I am aware of it so I must half awake and half asleep. Also I breath more heavily which probably gets the yo-yo effect started. I am afraid to up my pressure because when I am not in this mode, I am very comfortable.

Should I wear the medium and up my pressure, or use the large and up my pressure, or lower the EPR? I have tried all 3 EPR settings and 2 is the most comfortable. While pressure of 6 is most comfortable (and keeps away the OAs and HAs) I could be comfortable with higher pressures. Maybe I am still just not used to the mask and just sit tight.

Help?????

The graphs are with the Large pillow.

http://imgur.com/a/tocWx
Dont-know  I am an accountant so any advice given here is not medical. If I give any financial advice, you can take it to the bank. However, you will have a hard time cashing it in. Okay
Post Reply Post Reply
#2
I actually don't think raising the pressure is where you want to go. My suggestion is to limit your maximum pressure to 8.0. I'm not sure the pillow size is going to make a difference, but anytime CA and periodic breathing is present we would look to reduce pressure not increase it. Some people respond to EPR with increase central apnea, but I would hold at 2 for now since it is comfortable, and just settle for a reduced maximum pressure.
Post Reply Post Reply
#3
My guess is that something is awakening you (duh) and you start to breathe more deeply until your mind says, hey, wait you have more than enough oxygen. How do you feel when you become semi awake? Do you feel stressed or under pressure or fearful? Do you feel starved for air at any point during this? I have found that my AHI has improved since I started emulating my sleep breathing when I am in bed and awake. If you could control your breathing when half awake to simulate your asleep breathing it might keep this from happening. I do not know how you might accomplish that other than effort of will.

Do your desats come during the periodic breathing or not related at all? Do you have worse desats with the medium cushion than with the large?

Best Regards,

PaytonA
Post Reply Post Reply


#4
(01-07-2017, 03:55 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: My suggestion is to limit your maximum pressure to 8.0.

My 90% pressure has held steady at 8 for the last 10 months so this might be a good idea. I have tracked it very closely so it should be a good figure. I have thought I was going to drop it to 9 anyway. Even if an OA or two come in, it's got to be better than this.

Will change it tonight and see how this works.
Dont-know  I am an accountant so any advice given here is not medical. If I give any financial advice, you can take it to the bank. However, you will have a hard time cashing it in. Okay
Post Reply Post Reply
#5
(01-07-2017, 04:05 PM)PaytonA Wrote: How do you feel when you become semi awake? Do you feel stressed or under pressure or fearful? Do you feel starved for air at any point during this?

Do your desats come during the periodic breathing or not related at all? Do you have worse desats with the medium cushion than with the large?

Best Regards,

PaytonA

1. When I get semi awake, yes to all of that. Maybe frustrated too. My heart starts racing too. Had ECG, EKG, Holter monitor, and nuclear stress test, all ok. I am thinking this my body's way to wake me up. Just guessing. As for the starved for air, it's kinda like when my min pressure was at 4 but when my pressure is at 6 or above, I am very comfortable. Outside the periodic breathing of course. This is why I thought raising pressure and/or pillow size was the answer. I prefer not to do either.

2. I do not have a recording oximeter and I have only taken a reading at the end of a periodic episode. I am fairly confident this is the only time for the desats.

I do think the mind over matter is good advice too. When I finally realize I am in one of these episodes, I usually just get up and try to reset my body.

Thanks for the advice.

Dont-know  I am an accountant so any advice given here is not medical. If I give any financial advice, you can take it to the bank. However, you will have a hard time cashing it in. Okay
Post Reply Post Reply
#6
Hi Rcgop

You may remember that I am facing very similar challenges to you.

I posted a status update a few days ago - discussion thread is located at http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...em-machine

I too am now plagued by CAs and CS Periodic Breathing (zero OA events and a handful of H events, but 80-90% CA) - I've reduced the machine pressure down to almost minimum and it seems to have had no impact on the number of CA events - also interesting that I continue to see zero OAs and only 2-3 H events, even at this really low pressure...

Based on advice from couple of our online gurus, I'm now going to see if I can find a way to try an ASV machine and see what impact that has...
Post Reply Post Reply


#7
(01-07-2017, 07:27 PM)mymontreal Wrote: Based on advice from couple of our online gurus, I'm now going to see if I can find a way to try an ASV machine and see what impact that has...

Boy, I don't want to go down that path. 2 more payments and the machine is mine.
Dont-know  I am an accountant so any advice given here is not medical. If I give any financial advice, you can take it to the bank. However, you will have a hard time cashing it in. Okay
Post Reply Post Reply
#8
Both of you need to quit being so panicked by CA and periodic breathing. Unless you have a high AHI, or individual CA's are really long, it's not a lot more harmful than obstructive apnea.

Your body doesn't care a lot whether you are deprived of oxygen because of a CA or an OA.

CA/PB MAY be harder to eliminate, but they're not necessarily more harmful. If anything, they may be less harmful.

An ASV is a LOT harder to live with than a CPAP machine. They are a lifesaver to many people with bad CA/PB/CSR, but they're not "better" in a generic sense.

Note, you MAY have problems. However, don't let the CA/PB numbers scare you unless your AHI is high or you have extremely long apneas, probably more than 60 seconds or so.

If you want people to look at your results in more detail, upload a copy of your SD card to dropbox. There are instructions in my Useful Links in the signature line at the bottom of this post.
Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
Post Reply Post Reply
#9
mymontreal's description sounds to me like he has a definite need for an ASV. Rcgop-yours not so much. I would think that the large cushion would be a better bet because it passes more air more easily, but other than that, I think that you may need to work on the mental aspect of this situation. I also think that you might slowly reduce your pressure. I would feel much better if you were checking your oxygen saturation as you reduced your pressure. The recording pulse-ox meters are at most $200 and maybe rentals are available.

One other thing. You might try a different type of mask like a nasal mask. Just a thought but if your subconscious is getting panicky while asleep, a mask that brings you air in a slightly gentler fashion might help.

Let us know what and how you are doing.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
Post Reply Post Reply


#10
Quote:An ASV is a LOT harder to live with than a CPAP machine.

With respect I have to disagree with this statement. ASV machines are certainly more expensive and harder to get funded through insurance (where that applies) but they are in no way harder to live with. In fact I'd go so far as to say they are easier to live with for people (like me) who need them. In particular, the Resmed ASV is a wonderful piece of engineering with matches and supports your respiration, lulling you (me) off to sleep in no time. This from somebody who has been a chronic insomniac most of my life.
DeepBreathing
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Bed

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
Post Reply Post Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Question [Diagnosis] Periodic breathing bigtonio 52 1,587 Yesterday, 07:43 PM
Last Post: Sleeprider
  How do I stop mask removal while sleeping? SarcasticDave94 16 249 08-17-2017, 06:48 PM
Last Post: SarcasticDave94
Question Is my breathing shallow ? dwd1249 71 2,854 08-15-2017, 02:52 PM
Last Post: dwd1249
  Breathing Not Detected 24.75% fwg1947 5 235 08-03-2017, 02:30 PM
Last Post: Sleeprider
  CPAP cured my sleep apnea but had slight trouble breathing when awake. sharp56 1 217 07-30-2017, 02:34 PM
Last Post: justMongo
  Clicking noise from CPAP when breathing Fedman 8 1,335 07-26-2017, 09:20 AM
Last Post: SCnoel
  Flow graphs - Am I mouth breathing edfreeman 14 658 07-20-2017, 06:23 PM
Last Post: edfreeman

Forum Jump:

New Posts   Today's Posts




About Apnea Board

Apnea Board is an educational web site designed to empower Sleep Apnea patients.

For any more information, please use our contact form.