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[Treatment] Noob; wondering about equipment, info dump below
#31
RE: Noob; wondering about equipment, info dump below
not-related to the below: If a mod wants to rename my thread I'm fine with that... since it's evolved into more of an ongoing advice / treatment thread rather than just noob Q's about equipment. Wink

(07-10-2020, 02:22 PM)sheepless Wrote: there's a tiny gap in flow after your last ca and before the second session of ~31 minutes.  this doesn't explain why there are 2 sessions but oscar will combine sessions closer than some period of time I used to think was 1 minute but may actually be more like 3 minutes. presumably you 'unconsciously' turned the machine off for a brief time or the auto off/on function was triggered somehow.
I do not have "auto-off" enabled in the machine. So it literally won't turn itself off. (you can see this in the machine settings box on the left of the OSCAR window)
I am 99.99% sure I didn't turn it off manually, because if I had... I think it would show a larger time gap before the next "session" started. IME it takes several breaths before the auto-on kicks in, I would expect this to be a several second gap.
My OSCAR came "out of the box" set to combine sessions closer than 240 minutes, I believe. Since I generally only sleep once per day, this seemed sane to me, so that's how I left it.

Quote:weird though, I don't see corresponding gaps in the other graphs.  maybe at a closer zoom but no gaps might tell us the machine never actually turned off.  I do see a huge respiration rate spike that appears to correspond to the ca that precedes the gap in the flow rate.  not sure what that tells us though other than maybe your machine has a breathing not detected function before or after the spike causing it to stop recording flow (I'm not familiar with pr machines)? if that was the case you'd think it would occur with other ca events though.  all speculation.
I've had this weird "phantom session" thing happen more than once already (only had the machine for something like two weeks now). Bonjour: if you think this might be an OSCAR bug, I'm happy to use a debug copy / send you logs, or if you need to see my raw data I can provide that. I've run into a sporadic UI bug (related to the text input field on the "Notes" page of a session) on macOS that I'm trying to write up repro steps for as well, but having a hard time nailing them down...

Here's a zoom-in of the "lost time." (click to go straight to the full PNG if you want to "enhance")
[Image: HAegS8J.png]
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#32
RE: Noob; wondering about equipment, info dump below
now we can see the gap is in all the graphs, looks to be just 2 or 3 seconds long, while session information shows the first session end time to be exactly the same as the second session start time. all that suggests (to me) the machine wasn't turned off & it's probably a machine or oscar issue.

unless it was a momentary power fluctuation or loss.

by phantom session. do you mean you weren't using the machine for that last 31 minutes or just that it shouldn't be a separate session? pretty sure it's the latter but it might make a difference if if the 31 minutes was added (didn't exist, wasn't part of the first session).
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#33
RE: Noob; wondering about equipment, info dump below
No, by "phantom session" I meant that it shouldn't be two separate ones, rather one single.
I have several other days where it did a similar thing, but with the "split" in a different spot....

This one ("A") did the same thing at 8:45:21
This one ("B") had two manual stop/starts from me with larger gaps (expected), but then the final "session" has an "instantaneous split" at 8:28:52 that was not caused by a normal stop/start.

I'm wondering if there's some internal "maximum number of data points" in a "session" in the PR gear, and possibly it just ends a "session" file on the SD card and starts a new one at the same second? I know nothing about the structures here though, just a wild (but slightly educated) guess.
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#34
RE: Noob; wondering about equipment, info dump below
You know, the PR gear slant almost makes sense. Is it right? I don't know that. PR keeps a lot of the internal magic of their machines a secret.
Dave

OSCAR
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#35
RE: Noob; wondering about equipment, info dump below
Second night using AutoBiPAP. The gap in the results this time is expected, I shut off and got up to use the bathroom.

I'm honestly kind of amazed at these results, especially since one of my two nostrils was fairly clogged the whole night. (It had been fine prior to going to bed, and then started feeling stuffy just before I put on the mask...)

I mean, who can complain about sub-1 AHI?

It almost makes me wonder if I don't actually need PAP at all, and the results are somehow due to keeping my mouth closed and purely nose-breathing? It seems like the machine was barely doing anything "last night" (technically this AM since I didn't go to bed until like 6am, but you get the picture)...

[Image: Uls1pT7.png]
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#36
RE: Noob; wondering about equipment, info dump below
The Respironics is doing its job quite well at keeping events at bay. If you were to do without the PAP machine, eventually you'd be back to whatever the number of events were present during the sleep study mentioned early in this thread.

I think it was pretty high in total event count. This was it in fact: "There was a total of 671 respiratory events. Of these events, the total number of apneas was 479 (281 obstructive, 49 mixed, and 149 central) and 192 hypopneas. The respiratory event index (REI) was 75.9 events per hour of study time."

A PAP machine treats but doesn't cure events. There is a big difference in that.
Dave

OSCAR
Standard OSCAR Chart Order
Mask Primer
Dealing With A DME
Soft Cervical Collar Wiki
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#37
RE: Noob; wondering about equipment, info dump below
I'm more in shock about my experience / data using AutoBi vs. the fixed pressures I was prescribed.
I can hardly get to sleep with the prescription, and even when I did drift off, the numbers weren't great... But then I flipped it to Auto and I can get "down" easier and the results are fantastic.

Why would an entire healthcare system want to go so hard for fixed pressures from the get-go instead of starting me on Auto? Seems odd, especially when Auto seems to be working so much better for me.
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#38
RE: Noob; wondering about equipment, info dump below
It's only a guess on my part, but let's take the situation as if Apnea Board and other similar sites did not exist. What would that leave us as a patient scenario? Pretend we know nothing about anything PAP for a moment and then read what I'd think we'd have.

You and I would very likely not know any more than what misinformation the doctor and DME tells us, and on purpose, keeping us from self advocacy. We would not know the machines like the ResMed AutoSet or Respironics APAP exist. First off, we would not know it's legal in the US to adjust your own machine settings, nor would we know how to do it. We would be told the doctor must test and approve every setting change, and that only the DME can change it. We would be given straight CPAP which would catch us in a never ending cycle of wrong settings; visit the doc to complain and request a setting change. Then the DME gets a new script changing pressure from 6 to 7. Visit doc, complain, get pressure changed by DME over and over. Until either a single pressure maybe does an OK job at your therapy or you quit in frustration, sending the PAP back to the DME when you fail compliance. Then the DME re-issues it to another caught in the hamster wheel of frustrating CPAP mismanagement. AND with each step another medical bill for service.

Because if we didn't know an APAP exists since they "forgot" to tell us, we'd be stuck on one static pressure. The APAP/AutoSet, BiPAP/VAuto all by itself takes a lot of the doctor/DME adjustment loop out of the equation. But only if they choose the right pressures to begin with. I would venture to say it almost has to be that they choose the wrong pressures on the script on purpose to maintain that torture loop of see doc to complain, get a new script for a different pressure, get DME to change settings, and yes over and over still.

End the nightmare, because Apnea Board does exist. End of the evil loop of doc/DME controlling the pressure.

That's my answer to this: "Why would an entire healthcare system want to go so hard for fixed pressures from the get-go instead of starting me on Auto? Seems odd, especially when Auto seems to be working so much better for me."

A public service announcement, brought to you free by Dave in PA, land of Dictator in Wolf's clothes.

Coffee
Dave

OSCAR
Standard OSCAR Chart Order
Mask Primer
Dealing With A DME
Soft Cervical Collar Wiki
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#39
RE: Noob; wondering about equipment, info dump below
(07-11-2020, 01:28 PM)ZPrime Wrote: Second night using AutoBiPAP. The gap in the results this time is expected, I shut off and got up to use the bathroom.

I'm honestly kind of amazed at these results, especially since one of my two nostrils was fairly clogged the whole night. (It had been fine prior to going to bed, and then started feeling stuffy just before I put on the mask...)

I mean, who can complain about sub-1 AHI?

It almost makes me wonder if I don't actually need PAP at all, and the results are somehow due to keeping my mouth closed and purely nose-breathing? It seems like the machine was barely doing anything "last night" (technically this AM since I didn't go to bed until like 6am, but you get the picture)...

[Image: Uls1pT7.png]

Of course I would never mock a sleep professional doctor, but I wonder if we on the forum shouldn't get a commission...This is the brilliance your doctor came up with.  Quite a difference!

[Image: JvXUx9T.png]
Sleeprider
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#40
RE: Noob; wondering about equipment, info dump below
New thought, that brilliant pressure setting from Dr. Dolittle can be titled "Boat payment to buffoons".

Coffee  Eat-popcorn mmmm

Guess I don't mind mocking docs. Ka-ching. Money...
Dave

OSCAR
Standard OSCAR Chart Order
Mask Primer
Dealing With A DME
Soft Cervical Collar Wiki
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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