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[Treatment] Vitamin C for Central Sleep Apnea?
#11
As to gout, et al, new research here in Zurich suggests eating a handful of cherries a day should do the trick for cleaning out and combating any residue build up of uric acid or its constituents.

The knowledge on C as a stimulant (actually that is the wrong word here the word is Erreger which translates often as stimulant, but more means something like aggravating or pushing in this case) in correct and accurate. The phenomenon, first documented in the 40s has been confirmed on many subsequent occasions. However, not everything is published online in the US, and old studies in German or French are unlikely to easily show up. If your patterns are not disturbed, don't worry about it. Time released C or multivitamins are available in six and eight hour versions.

Apnoea in all forms is known to increase vascularization, which is why it can also be a factor in cancer growth. Part of that is increases in haemoglobin. Hence the need to bring it under control in any sufferer - the stress is not only on the heart, but on all body systems and an increased growth factor in cancers as well. In short, you really DO need a good night's sleep.

There is no literature or even anecdotal evidence to support the idea of a PAP device weakening throat tone or preventing it from strengthening. In terms of CA, the problem is neurological, and therefore the PAP is simply keeping you breathing when the brain forgets to. Again, neither weakening nor dependency forming. There is no evidence of learned behaviour of the autonomic nervous system from PAP devices.

Lastly, you can be tested at home for apnoea - the device for testing is portable and easily used.
While not often done, catheterised blood draws can be done at home as well, but I would bet a set up like that in the US would cost a bundle. Home testing for apnoea is not, however, and you should ask for it. You are half way there with the pulseox and an ecg, but not all the way - an eeg is also part of the testing to examine what is going on in the brain as well, to diagnose central apnoeas, as is an O2 metering system to analyse air flow and other devices as well. All of this in a single handy dandy device that slings around the neck.

To me it does sound neurological in nature, not only because of the suspect CA, but also because of the heart rhythm disruptions - the heart, according to your cardiologist is running just fine, and this indicates the wiring problem is elsewhere. Again, the question is which is causing which - the heart causing the CA or the CA causing the heart - in most cases, it is the latter, and dealing with CA often clears up cardiac issues. Alas, the best method so far is often a PAP. Not in every case, but enough of them to matter.

As for camping and the like - there are ultra lightweight devices that run on batteries, and also something called Provent that is actually a nose plaster that can be used in a pinch, the latter only for OSA, alas. I have not found using a CPAP to hinder my extensive travelling nor physical activity.
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#12
Thanks for your reply. I'll stick with the daily grapefruit thenSmile

I don't have central apnea, but am finding this thread incredibly interesting. Thanks also to the OP for posting.

(08-21-2013, 04:31 PM)DocWils Wrote:
(08-21-2013, 09:12 AM)Elen Wrote: DocWils,

Out of curiousity, how much Vitamin C should you take daily? I eat a grapefruit a day, but I don't think this is enough. Thanks.

You can take as much as whatever your bowel tolerance is, for most people that is around 1g, but results may vary. However, we are seeing more and more C poisoning as people intake so much continuously that damage is done - on the whole, like most people of my profession, I prefer to advocate healthy eating as the best way of getting your dietary intake of minerals and vitamins, and using supplements sparingly. There is increasing evidence that many supplements actually don't work, as the body is primed to absorb the given mineral or vitamin only in combination with the foods they are normally contained in.

This doesn't mean that you shouldn't take supplements, but that you should take them wisely and be well informed about how they really work.
Unless there is a compelling reason to take extra C, for instance, your grapefruit is already plenty. While C is water soluble and you pee it out pretty quickly, it is not actually a substance that you have to continuously refill all day. Our ancestors were not eating twenty fruits over the entire day - our system doesn't need a constant refresh supply.

Generally I recommend Berocca or Supradyn as a decent supplement, although neither, I believe, are sold in the US in the same formulation as in Switzerland, or I recommend a specific for certain deficiencies, D being a common one, especially in less sunny climes and for people who work indoors all day, and fish oils as a general good practice, but on the whole, I still feel the best way is through a wide and varied diet. That said, used wisely and well, supplements can be your friend, too.

This remains a controversial subject with vociferous advocates and nay sayers, but I tend to prefer well done trials to prove or disprove something's efficacy, so I will follow the more conservative guidelines until data shows me differently.

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#13
Ellen,

Just be sure that you are not taking the grapefruit with certain medications - there is considerable evidence that it can make them work in other than expected ways, either strengthening them or diluting them, or altering their ability to bind with the correct receptors. On the whole, the daily aspirin should be taken at least an hour apart from anything like a grapefruit, and that at least two hours apart from heart, blood pressure or thinners medication.

Never combine aspirin with any other medication except PPRIs (stomach medicine) and never use grapefruit with any medication, including many herbal meds.
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#14

Quote:I have been concerned that all of the effort I expended in my youth learning to suppress the desire to breath for underwater swimming has been a factor in what I am dealing with now.

Hi dgossman, strange but as being a scuba diver for many years I'm also asking the same question...how did the underwater apnea's affect my central nervous system?

I used to hold on my breath for 3,5 minutes or so.

I'm also having centrals and A-Fib. Guess something went wrong in my brain? Does anybody now a relationship between exercising underwater apnea and central sleep apnea?
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#15
As an ACUC myself, and my brother a diving pioneer in the 50s and 60s, neither of us test for CA at all, and there is no literature to suggest the activity of swimming or diving can have a later knock on effect in that way. At least not yet - well, one more paper to suggest to some young med student eager to make his name, I suppose. I'll pass it on.
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#16
Just a note to say kudos to all contributors to this post for a lucid and interesting discussion. Nicely done!
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#17
(08-21-2013, 07:35 PM)dgossman Wrote: I also have a brother who is a doctor and a daughter who is a vet to consult with

I had to chuckle when I read this. I had a problem with high Lactic Acid for a couple of years. My doc couldn't do anything but monitor it.
One day I took my dog to the vet. He knew of my problem and I told him high LA seems to hit dogs a lot and what did he do. Answer: sprinkle bi-carb on his food. Or, take aspirin free Alka Seltzer.

Worked like a charm and my doc moved it into her bag of tricks.
That was one smart vet Shy
Aloha,
MrCourtney
Honolulu, HI
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#18
DocWils -

Thanks for taking the time to add your expertise here. I'm learning a lot from you.
Aloha,
MrCourtney
Honolulu, HI
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#19
I have a comment about vitamins in general.

Vitamins are chemicals just like any drug. While really bad things happen if you don't get enough, they all have some sort of side effects, especially if you take mega doses. These effects aren't all known yet, especially if you're going to be taking them every day.

Some vitamins, such as vitamin A or D, can even kill you or have really bad side effects if over consumed.

I recommend that no one take more than a few times the US RDI recommended daily intake without a lot of research into that particular vitamin.
Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
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#20
Agreed Archangle. Again, it is best if you simply have a wide and varied diet, eat your fruit and veg as recommended and only take supplement that shore up areas of your diet that are lacking. For that you still need blood tests to determine what you are low on.

And Courtney123 - you are welcome. Please read the disclaimer, though. Very important.
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