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Trouble keeping my mouth closed
#11
(09-10-2017, 07:22 AM)bonjour Wrote: It sounds like your leak rate is ok.  The better question is did your leak rate interfere with your getting effective therapy?

Did your large leaks cover a significant portion of your night? Sounds like a no.
Were they clumped together or spread out? What was the shape of the leak graph?

If you post your daily charts we can frequently identify cause of the leak. Is It a mouth leak or a mask leak? Is it positional or not.

Fred

Fred:  The leak from the nasal pillows (just started using them the last 2 nights) did NOT interfere with my sleep, I actually slept better with them compared to the (small leak rate) from the FFM which wakes me numberous times.  In addition, the last two nights were actually the only times I had my AHI so low....we are still monitoring it for my first doc appointment after starting CPAP.

I've had so much CA that I think I need ASV.  However, with the last two nights my CA has gone down from an average of 26 events a night with the FFM to 9 events (only 2 nights with the pillows).  The OA has gone down from 9 events a night to 0.5, while interesting my Hypopnea have gone up from 4 to 9 events.    I've woke up feeling much better (two nights ago I didn't sleep much cause I woke up starving and couldn't get back to sleep, I'm on a diet, but I feel the last two nights I've done so much better .  My AHI was averaging 6.15 with FFM, and 3.18 the last 2 nights with the pillows.

https://imgur.com/a/D5xuH

Please note that the above link is for 2 nights, but the 4 screen shots are broken up; there is Day 2 part 1, then Day 1 part 1, then Day 2 part 2, and finally day 1 part 2.
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#12
(09-09-2017, 11:51 PM)bonjour Wrote: Every reply above is correct. It does go to show how individual and important a mask and its fit is

I always suggest that masks be tried from least intrusive (pillows) to nasal masks to most intrusive (full face masks)

Read the mask primer

Very true, Fred. However there seems to be a body of thought that using a full face mask is somehow a failure. We often see people struggling to maintain a lip seal, resorting to multiple devices and interventions, and not accepting that an FFM is a simple and easy remedy. If you've got to the stage of taping your lips and wearing a chinstrap or collar and are still having problems then it's time to try something different.

Walla Walla Wrote:FFM's are a last resort. Lot's of people have worse leaks with a full face mask than mouth leaks. I use a Collar and it works well. I have a Amara View a AirFit and AirTouch F20. All full face masks I have trouble with getting leaks. Oh I can tighten them down if I want to wake up with semi permanent ruts in my face. I think it's better to wear a collar.

I disagree, WW. There is no such thing as a last resort when it comes to masks. It's a matter of finding a mask which suits yourself. For many people the FFM is a very effective solution. If you have the straps so tight it's marking your face, then you're not doing it right.
DeepBreathing
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#13
Just to be clear, using a Full Face Mask (FFM) is never a failure, it is a solution. The end goal is effective therapy. Without question a FFM is the original and traditional solution to mouth breathing.

I'll have to look at how to better relay that simple fact. Thanks DB
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#14
Let me clarify one point. I do not believe using a Full Face Mask implies being a failure. I prefer nasal pillows. Thank you.
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#15
I'm very fortunate. I use an F&P Simplus FFM. I haven't had to fight with fit or comfort. It's the only device I've used. Sometimes I wake up and I can't tell that I have it on. If it did bother me I would certainly make a bother to find what does work. Nasal, ffm, who cares so long as you sleep well. Everyone is different, just don't give up!
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#16
oh wow, I just got a respironics mouth strap yesterday.

Did the job quite well at keeping my mouth shut. Wife said that the noise was almost gone.(vs me having my mouth open wooshing air all night...)

BUT:

Results arent better (machine works even with the mouth leaks).
Looks horrible. I am ashamed.
Makes "feeling" the mask fit hard, as your whole face is strapped by large bands.
Warm.
Had sore muscles and jaws this morning.

Seriously, the person that sells me the stuff says that a little nostril mask + a chinstrap is better than a full face, but imo, I would feel much better with an amara view vs that thing?

I don't know.... I don't mind the leaks, my wife does. What should I do? I'm not strapping my face with that...
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#17
It was all the gear I had on my head that made me switch to a FFM due to lip leaking. I tried all sorts of stuff and nothing really stopped it. My mouth was closed but I was practically whistling with the air coming out.

I used the Simplus for quite some time then went back to the Nuance. I rarely lip leak now. I guess I taught my lips a lesson, eh?
PaulaO2
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.




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#18
(09-09-2017, 09:21 PM)DeepBreathing Wrote: A full face mask is the simple and obvious answer. I really don't know why people persevere with pillows and nasal masks then have to resort to all sorts of tongue-tricks, taping lips, chin straps, cervical collars etc etc to avoid mouth leaks.

Like all mask types, you will need to experiment to find the FFM that is right for you, then never worry about mouth leaks again. Some popular FFMs to try: F&P Simplus, Amara View, Resmed F20.

Some of us persevere with pillows because an FFM does not suit our face structure, maybe?. My initial experiences with FFM was a nightmare. As noted previously it was like sleeping in a wind tunnel. and I was waking up constantly through the night and finally ripping the mask off-that is why.

With the P10 and a cervical collar, no high leaks are registered, my numbers are usually <1 and unbelievably my uninterrupted sleep period is getting longer. The tongue trick really does work-we can train ourselves to sleep with our mouth closed just as we dropped into the habit of mouth breathing due to being oxygen starved due to sleep apnea.

It really is a case of what works for us-we are all built differently.
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#19
I'm only 3 weeks in but I tried the Dreamwear nasal pillow my first night and didn't like the feeling of constant pressure at the back of my throat. I found it too distracting. I switched to a FFM and used that for about a week and a half. I liked it at first but as time went on it felt more intrusive and restrictive. Really did feel like an alien sucking on my face if I didn't have it tight enough. I tried the P10 but didn't like something directly in my nostrils. I switched back to the Dreamwear and had mouth leaks a few times. I got a soft cervical collar and that's helped a lot. Took a few nights to get used to the cervical collar but I'm really liking it so far. The Dreamwear is a lot more comfortable for me even if adding on the cervical collar than a FFM. Lots of trial and error though in my journey I finding out.
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#20
where do you get the collars from?
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