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UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"
#61
RE: UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"
(12-01-2019, 11:15 PM)DeepBreathing Wrote:  That might change over time, but we have a responsibility to say that there is nothing proven in all this talk of fake events, and the rather strange mathematical contortions which some people indulge in.

--Thanks, DeepBreathing for calling my attention on this, not offended.


One thing my long professional researcher’s career taught me was how hard we have to endure to change, eventually contribute, even a minor bit, on way people do and interpret data in general. We have to be very indulgent, resilient and emphatic with ourselves and face difficulties.

One thing I can tell you: my semi-quantitative approach (no further intention) worked very nicely for me and guided me to get my tailored EPAPmin x PS, and get absolute zero on Flmax column, and, consequent, better life quality. I took me some 6 months to get this.

If were today, after knowing the overnight outcomes after oriented changes on EPAPmin and PS, it would take me maximum 15 days to get those tailored parameters, as we did on a fellow’s case. It could be also be used to anticipate/predict and tell directions to be follow, as we trying to do on a second case.

It might not believe yet, but it works better than words and just guesses.

All the best
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#62
RE: UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"
(12-01-2019, 10:51 PM)alexp Wrote:
(12-01-2019, 12:42 PM)bonjour Wrote: Mper, NONE of the events you call fake are fake, they are real events.  I assure you that great effort was put into getting events right by the manufacturers.   Your, and my, choice to ignore events does not make them fake.  

And I disagree with AHI being useless as that is the starting point.  You take care of the events that you see first, then you have a 'clean plate' to see if you need further treatment for Flow Limits, UARS, or whatever you care to call them.  Only an idiot would not look at the AHI, and I'm sure you are not an idiot.
Well I disagree with you.

For instance, if I  breath through my mouth, the machine will flag a CA event because it has no way to tell I'm still breathing even though I am. This is not a central apnea and would be a bad idea to switch to an asv machine for this reason when all you need to fix is your mouth breathing (which can be hard). Happened to me all the time at first when I first started my therapy.

And yes holding your breath while awake can be technically called a central apnea event, but why would you try to fix this? Unless you are holding your breath for too long, your O2 level won't drop especially if you took a deep breath right before. It won't wake you up because you are already awake. So I don't get why we shoud fix these 'apneas'. It's a waste of time and it's may be detrimental to your therapy.

I would suggest people to watch some videos (don't think I can name the channel) where a sleep technician compares the results from a sleep study to what we see when we only look at the flow rate graph and to make their own mind.

Oscar is a good tool and will show that you might be experiencing central apneas but I would recommend a real sleep study before jumping to conclusions or at least to keep in mind you don't have enough data to tell without a doubt that you are experiencing significant central apneas. There is nothing dangerous keeping an open mind on the data coming from the machine since it's not as accurate as a complete sleep study.
Hi, Alex

As usual from you,  this was great! In particular, how misleading and deleterious maybe wrong interpretations of these false events, with regard to directions to follow on therapy, machines of the choice, and so on.

Not on account of this, but of many other of your posts, you, in general have great insights and are able to put in simple words, complex respiratory phenomena we, laymen, don't known how work. 

All the best
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#63
RE: UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"
Hi,
Just to remind and let us think a little more.
Yet only 14 users responded it, a recent poll here, launched by Deepbreathing, closed at 71% of people that think CA's are artefacts induced by therapy, wrong settings, or other causes, maybe not true primary events.

All the best
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#64
RE: UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"
...the poll......http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-Diagnosis-Do-you-have-central-sleep-apnea
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#65
RE: UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...leep-apnea
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#66
RE: UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"
to avoid the misunderstandings that go with 'fake', how about calling events thought to be discountable what they are thought to be, like waking events or arousal induced events. or be more specific when appropriate, as in leak induced... despite perceived controversy, I really think we're all talking about the same thing.
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#67
RE: UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"
I'd rather see something like "I feel this sequence of events is an indicator of" Because obviously those CAs are being used to indicated something.

I still don't understand the method. I challenge you to document the medical condition that these indicators represent, ideally backed by some medical research. And to simplify the method.
For example, it was found that adding a metered medical grade CO2 gas directly at the mask provided a much more precise impact to the CO2 induced central apneas but the EERS system was much easier to implement, and while nowhere near as accurate was just as effective in treating the condition.
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#68
RE: UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"
great that these questions are being asked and concerns are raised. yes, more info is needed but it has to start somewhere. to my knowledge there's no authoritative documentation about the efficacy of the soft cervical collar, yet users have known better since 2015. even that user based data has taken time to accumulate. information & knowledge evolves. good to raise issues though, as ideas are fleshed out & tested. as we know, even failure can advance understanding. glad to see this discussion broadening.
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#69
RE: UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"
(12-02-2019, 11:13 AM)sheepless Wrote: to avoid the misunderstandings that go with 'fake',  how about calling events thought to be discountable what they are thought to be, like waking events or arousal induced events. or be more specific when appropriate, as in leak induced... despite perceived controversy, I really think we're all talking about the same thing.

Hi, Sheepless

Looks a good Idea. I do discounted them daily. Most of the time all of them, actually.

All the best, thanks
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#70
RE: UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"
FYI there is an ongoing study with cervical collars that the preliminary results are in line with our observations, they refer to 'maintaining cervical alignment' instead of chin tucking.
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