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UPS options (Power backup for CPAP) machines
#1
We had a power outage about a year ago where we were out of power for more than 48 hours due to a heavy windstorm.

I have a UPS 1300 ranking for my PC. Recently, we had a brief outage again. I connected my both Resmed S10 and legacy Respironics (separately) to the UPS to see how much it would draw. While the S10 was a bit more hungry then the legacy Respironics Remstar, the estimated usage was less than 90 minutes.

I take it that there is no inexpensive commercial (turnkey) devices that don't cost a fortune to run their cpap for the night during a power failure?

Some threads I have seen are:
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...wer+supply
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...wer+supply
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...wer+supply

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#2
All 3 are good threads on battery backup.
There are several good ways; but first one must ask: Do I need automatic switch over? Or, can I get by with manually switching over from AC to battery.

A basic system for the ResMed: you'll need their 12 VDC to 24 VDC power inverter, a SLA/AGM 12 V battery in the 35 to 50 Amp-Hr range; and a method to charge. If you want automatic switch over, then the solution used by user OMyMyOHellYes uses a HAM radio component to switch from a line operated supply to battery with a built in charge function.
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#3
(07-03-2016, 03:41 PM)Hmm888 Wrote: I take it that there is no inexpensive commercial (turnkey) devices that don't cost a fortune to run their cpap for the night during a power failure?

You can get a converter that will allow you to run off a 12-volt car or boat battery. With the humidifier off they will run your machine for at least a couple of nights.

UPS is good for short outages that would otherwise ruin a night's sleep, but you need a direct connection to a large and heavy battery if you want to last a night or more.

My plan is to use my car battery if we ever have a long outage, but we get those only every 25 years or so. The last one was Hurricane Ike in 2008. We went for 10 days with no electricity. Before that it was Alicia in 1983, when we went two weeks with no electricity.

I didn't start using a CPAP machine until 2011.
Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#4
This is a basic backup system for a ResMed.
Battery, 12 VDC to 24 VDC ResMed up-converter
And, a Battery tender to keep the battery charged.
[Image: 16922865986_c2d4bd28bc_c.jpg]
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#5
That is a good basic setup and it is for the most part very much like what I used for years. The system would alert me and wake me up when power was interrupted by trying to suffocate me. I would get up, grab a flashlight, go to the closet, schlep out a battery and cable, unhook the normal power supply and hook up the battery one. Then go back to sleep. Disassemble and change it out the next morning if/when power came back online. Than can, however, be a lot of work at o' dark thirty. Particularly if it is only a 30 minute interruption. That's what drove me to outfitting my homebrew UPS. With the battery snuggled under the bed now, it is really slick looking and working system.

Which reminds me, it is the start of a new month and I need to go switch over the charger to my other 39 AH batteries and change the AC filter today.

Y'all have a good Independence Day.

OMMOHY
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#6
(07-03-2016, 03:56 PM)justMongo Wrote: All 3 are good threads on battery backup.
There are several good ways; but first one must ask: Do I need automatic switch over? Or, can I get by with manually switching over from AC to battery.

A basic system for the ResMed: you'll need their 12 VDC to 24 VDC power inverter, a SLA/AGM 12 V battery in the 35 to 50 Amp-Hr range; and a method to charge. If you want automatic switch over, then the solution used by user OMyMyOHellYes uses a HAM radio component to switch from a line operated supply to battery with a built in charge function.

Thanks for the info.

Automatic switchover isn't necessary in my case. I could get up and connect the cpap.

What is the "method of charge" you suggest. I never looked at a standard car battery. Are they in the 35 to 50 Amp-Hr range?
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#7
Standard car batteries are not well suited to this kind of application. Their construction and chemistry are optimized to give a large, high amperage "dump" during a short burst to turn over your engine to get it running. They may *work* for a short while in this kind of application but it will not be for as long as a battery dedicated to this kind of service (often called a deep cycle battery). If you completely discharge a cranking battery more than a few dozen times, its life may be over at that point. Think of a car cranking battery as a sprinter. A deep cycle battery is more of a marathon runner.

Search for 12 V AGM deep cycle batteries. There are tons (literally - they are made of lead plates!) of them out there.

Care and feeding of them is done best with a smart charger like the Battery Tender made by Deltran (not the only smart charger, and may or may not be the best, but they are kind of the 800 # gorilla in the segment...)

OMMOHY
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#8
Actually, I've found you don't necessarily need a special battery or a voltage converter. If you only need it occasionally, a car battery or security alarm battery will do just fine. The gist is that you hook a battery (or 2 for 24 V models) directly to the CPAP.

Virtually all CPAPs these days actually run on 12-24 VDC, derived from the AC power line by a power supply module. If you can bypass the module, you can run much, much more efficiently from a variety of 12VDC sources without using an inverter. (The inverter changes the 12 VDC to 120 VAC, and the power supply module changes the 120 VAC back to 12 VDC - it's like carrying a bucket of water up to the attic and then back down - you have what you started with, but a lot less energy.)

How do you bypass? If you have a separate "brick" adapter between the wall and the CPAP, it's easy, though you may need to pay a tech a few bucks to make an adapter cable that plugs into the CPAP in where the adapter goes. Depending on your level of tech knowledge and comfort, you may do this yourself; some tips follow.

Some machines have a jack on the back, often a round one with a center pin like you see on the back of a lot of computer accessories - routers, usb hubs, etc. The polarity and voltage may be marked at the jack on on the nameplate on the back or bottom, and the info may be in the user or service manuals. If it's clear and within your abilities, just hook it up to a 12 V (or 2 for 24 V) battery. I get over an hour for each AH of the battery rating, so a 7.2 AH gel cell runs all night. I've travelled with that combo so I could sleep on planes (or on a bad day, in waiting areas without power). A car battery could easily last over a week. I ran about half a dozen nights on a single car battery on a safari in Tanzania. That was before affordable LiPo batteries, which way a lot less.

Other machines run on 24VDC; everything's the same, except you use two 12V batteries in series. You get twice the run time, or use lower AH batteries for less weight.

If you know your abilities (and their limits), you know whether to try this on your own or have a tech do it. If you goof up, it's possible to damage it so badly that you'll have to replace it. So don't goof up!
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#9
Does anyone have any experience with the rather compact Duracell PowerSource 1800 which can be used to power small appliances? It has 110v outlets, but a direct 12v connection. It has switching and recharging capability.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
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#10
(07-15-2016, 04:09 AM)srlevine1 Wrote: Does anyone have any experience with the rather compact Duracell PowerSource 1800 which can be used to power small appliances? It has 110v outlets, but a direct 12v connection. It has switching and recharging capability.

Nope. No experience. But a few observations.

It is nothing more than an overgrown, over priced computer UPS. It is simply three 12 V 17 AH batteries and an inverter and a charger [per mfg. spec sheet - Amazon's detailed description says a single 60 AH battery and then conflicts itself by saying a 51 AH battery [I guess they mean 17AH*3 in parallel =51]]. I would avoid anything that you plug a 120 V appliance into. That means an inverter. Inverters are hugely inefficient. In the manufacturer's spec sheet, it talked a lot about "five AC outlets" but never once did I find where it mentioned direct 12 V DC connection(s); user manual also fails to mention direct DC output. So I don't know where the "direct 12v connection" come from.

And compact? Really? 19.25 inches by 8.25 inches by 11.25 inches? And almost 60 pounds?

Priced at over $450, some asking up to $600, and full retail price of $850, wildly overpriced. You can get the three batteries (probably better quality) for less than $50 each and an inverter for a little more than $125 (there's that quality thing again - more if you want better quality).

OMMOHY
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