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Using AirSense 10 to test over the counter devices
#1
Using AirSense 10 to test over the counter devices
Sorry if this is in the wrong place or if it has already been covered. Let me know and I will look elsewhere but I could not find this topic.

Could I use my ResMed AirSense 10 autoset to determine the effectiveness of over the counter mandibular advancement devices and/or tongue suck devices.

Second question. If one of these devices does seem to work and the autoset reduces the pressure all the way 4 I will still not know if it would work without the CPAP providing the pressure of 4. Could I use my pulseoximeter to determine if say the tongue device is working without my CPAP? 

I'm thinking if a device combined with my CPAP works at pressure 4 I could do the following.

1) recorded with the pulseox for 7 days with the CPAP set as is.

2) switch to autoset and recorded pulseox for another 7  days.

3) while on autoset add the device and recorded pulseox for 7 days.

4) if the auto set drops to 4, with few events, stop using the cpap and record pulseox with the device only.

If the pulse ox is basically the same in all the trials would it be reasonable to conclude that the tongue sucker or jaw advancer worked?
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#2
RE: Using AirSense 10 to test over the counter devices
I think there's limited to possibly no real values that would show when using an AutoSet as a testing tool. The AutoSet isn't a diagnostic tool and I do think it'll be difficult to prove anything by this method. That's my humble opinion.

If however you want to prove it helps sleep, go ahead and add things in. Review OSCAR and how it helps you feel more rested. Now that may be OK.
Dave

OSCAR
Standard OSCAR Chart Order
Mask Primer
Dealing With A DME
Soft Cervical Collar Wiki
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#3
RE: Using AirSense 10 to test over the counter devices
Yep. That is what I'm thinking of doing. If the over the counter things don't cause a drop in the autoset pressure and/or the number of events that seems like good evidence that the device didn't work.

The issue is if they do work, few/no events, I will still not know if I can do without the CPAP set to the lowers flow (4).

Can I learn anything in that situation with the pulse/ox?
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#4
RE: Using AirSense 10 to test over the counter devices
It's my understanding that if you really want to know if you need PAP treatment or not, then a sleep study in lab or at home is required. Using a CPAP to prove you don't have events or don't need a PAP, this isn't going to give results I'd have confidence in relying upon.
Dave

OSCAR
Standard OSCAR Chart Order
Mask Primer
Dealing With A DME
Soft Cervical Collar Wiki
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#5
RE: Using AirSense 10 to test over the counter devices
Albercook, before responding I looked at your most recent posts, back to "If you got one wish", a thought provoking thread. 

My thought was to view your Oscar graphs and get some idea of the variability of your flow rate and SpO2 during and among your sleep sessions. I did see about a 12-minute view of your FR and SpO2 with dips in the latter. My immediate reaction to your OP (this thread) was to think Sarcastic Dave could well be right about getting inconclusive results but, if it were me, I'd give each or your approaches a try for a longer period of time because of the high variability of my sleep metrics. Again, for me, SpO2 irregularity through a night and night to night is a problem.

I've been working along a somewhat parallel investigative track, but with different questions aimed at devising a way for us to self-score/assess/identify arousals. I have the benefit of good accelerometer data (OSCAR presents) and I bought a Dreem 2 to help with its limited EEG capabilities.   But I find large variations in Flow Rate and motion within, say, my 30 minute epochs, and, also among such variations  sleep session to session. (This is with my one-time high RDI down to a 6-month AHI of 0.1 and my erratic SpO2--nightly average a bit low at about 93-94 with a few at  95+). I bring that up, because I'd likely need at least 3 or 4 weeks to get some subjective sense of the efficacy of a device, settings, drug or lifestyle (less coffee, inter alia) change.

For me, the Dreem 2 has surprised me with its indication of huge variations, night to night, in REM and DEEP sleep. After more than four months of use I think it is blind to all my arousals, not just micro arousals. I rarely trigger WAKE, other than for a toilet visit, but I do have large sudden shifts in position that are accompanied by large amplitude crescendo-decrescendo bursts of the flow rate curve. Of course, we move during sleep for mere comfort's sake and careful reading of relative timing of motion onset vs the amplitude burst is necessary (is meaningful, I believe). In short, I can see large disturbances in FR and motion in the middle of a continuing sleep stage and then see a downgrade of stage not marked by any disturbance. I been chasin' rabbits so far!

My sense is that the Dreem 2 may yield useful information about sleep stage for those whose problem is machine scored apnea or for those who have normal breathing (no apnea) but want more information about their sleep quality or significant periods of wakefulness. I'd hoped to find conspicuous patterns of FR and motion disturbances precede most transitions from DEEP or REM to LIGHT sleep or from any sleep stage to WAKE.

Thankyou for the linked article in your thread I mentioned:  "CPAP therapy on OSA patient evaluated by NIRS." I quote from it "These apnea associated periodic oscillations in hemodynamic parameters are totally eliminated under optimal CPAP pressures, as shown in (b)." I want to go back and read it through, though its far above my pay grade. It seems to promise a day when our lower EPAP pressure or our CPAP pressures will be modulated in real time, maybe by way of tweaking the settings of our conventional APAP devices that adjust pressures according to changes in very recent air flows/stoppages of short duration. 
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#6
RE: Using AirSense 10 to test over the counter devices
For what it's worth, my home sleep study showed an AHI of 23, mostly obstructive apnea, with just one O2 drop below 90. If you proceed with your experiment, you might want to define in advance exactly what you are looking for in your O2 data. E.g., drops of more than 4?
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