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Well, I'm begining to like Windows 7
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #1
Well, I'm begining to like Windows 7
On my new Dell XPS 8700, I have everything organized much the same as my former XP machine.
I got my CPAP SW installed and was able to put my former data file in the correct location -- so, I have all my data.

I took my old (2009) Dell XPS 630i and put Windows 7 home 32 bit on it; and to my surprise it worked. After some customization I gave it to my XYL to replace her old Celeron based XP machine.

Then I decided to take on my Dell 1525 laptop. I pulled the 2.5 inch HDD that has XP on it; and put in a new drive with slightly larger capacity. I probably should have gone with a 7200 RPM drive as disk access is a bit slow; but, I didn't want to lessen time on battery. It actually worked without loading a single Dell driver. I did decide to load their touchpad driver for Vista. I'm rather stoked at the moment.

(OH, and MicroSoft, I bought licensed copies of all operating systems for each machine)

Now, I wish I'd gotten a two drive RAID 1 in my 8700, plus 16GB RAM and the uSATA SSD drive. I can add memory easily. Setting up a uSATA, I beleive requires a software reinstall -- so that's off the table.
I have yet to determine if I can setup RAID 1 mirror without a reinstall.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2014 01:12 PM by justMongo.)
06-01-2014 01:11 PM
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herbm Offline

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Post: #2
RE: Well, I'm begining to like Windows 7
If I remember right, you have some computer skills -- you can avoid a re-install if you copy the disk volumes to a new drive.

I put a pair of 1 TB Solid State Drives into my laptop. Previously, I moved the OS drive of an earlier laptop from a regular drive to a hybrid-SSD when full SSD's were still very expensive.

Basic strategy:

Get an external USB case for one of the drives, i.e., a portable drive converter (you can skip this step if you have two built in drive bays.)

Boot from a utility OS DVD/CD (it can be Windows PE of some sort, one of the downloadable disks like Falcon 4, or a Linux repair/utility bootable OS).

Use a copy program on the utility OS (e.g.,dd on linux, various tools on Windows) to copy the Drive & PARTITIONS, not just the files.

Swap out the new drive and test -- if it fails due to a copy mistake, you can put the old drive back in.

I don't like doing this, but seemed to end up doing it for someone (myself, friends, or family) a few times per year.

BTW, if you buy a portable USB converter case that fits the old drive, you can then continue to use that as a portable drive -- or place it in the 2nd bay if you have one.

Most laptops only have 1 drive bay so that is the reason for the portable USB case. My current laptop has two drives bays. (Filled with 2 x 1TB drives as mentioned above.)

You can never have too much money, be too skinny, or have enough disk space.

Sweet Dreams,

HerbM
Sleep study AHI: 49 RDI: 60 -- APAP 10-11 w/AHI: 1.5 avg for 7-days (up due likely to hip replacement recovery)

"We can all breathe together or we will all suffocate alone."
06-01-2014 02:28 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Well, I'm begining to like Windows 7
Herb,

I disagree. You can be too skinny - not that I am going to get there anytime soon.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
06-01-2014 06:22 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #4
RE: Well, I'm begining to like Windows 7
(06-01-2014 02:28 PM)herbm Wrote:  If I remember right, you have some computer skills -- you can avoid a re-install if you copy the disk volumes to a new drive.

I put a pair of 1 TB Solid State Drives into my laptop. Previously, I moved the OS drive of an earlier laptop from a regular drive to a hybrid-SSD when full SSD's were still very expensive.

Basic strategy:

Get an external USB case for one of the drives, i.e., a portable drive converter (you can skip this step if you have two built in drive bays.)

Boot from a utility OS DVD/CD (it can be Windows PE of some sort, one of the downloadable disks like Falcon 4, or a Linux repair/utility bootable OS).

Use a copy program on the utility OS (e.g.,dd on linux, various tools on Windows) to copy the Drive & PARTITIONS, not just the files.

Swap out the new drive and test -- if it fails due to a copy mistake, you can put the old drive back in.

I don't like doing this, but seemed to end up doing it for someone (myself, friends, or family) a few times per year.

BTW, if you buy a portable USB converter case that fits the old drive, you can then continue to use that as a portable drive -- or place it in the 2nd bay if you have one.

Most laptops only have 1 drive bay so that is the reason for the portable USB case. My current laptop has two drives bays. (Filled with 2 x 1TB drives as mentioned above.)

You can never have too much money, be too skinny, or have enough disk space.

If I understand correctly, your procedure is for getting from an HDD to a SSD. I was lamenting not having gotten the mSATA drive that plugs into a connector on the PCIe bus. The mSATA should be in place before OS load.

That said, I'd like to improve my HDD reliability by going RAID 1 mirror on my Dell 8700 desktop. It has an Intel chipset on the mobo.
Intel Rapid Storage Technology is loaded and running.

I think I have to apply several registry entry changes:
setting these keys to zero to get them to autostart:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\msahci
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\iaStorV
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\iaStor

I think msahci is the AHCI driver which is the mode it's now in; and IaSrorV is the RAID driver.

I think that's done first; then RAID is set in BIOS (from AHCI); and when a second HDD is plugged in, it will build the RAID array (provided Auto Rebuild on Hotplug is enabled in Intel Rapid Storage Technology.)

I'm just not certain of the steps; and cannot afford the setback of having to reload an OS, files and personalizations on a machine I need daily.

Perhaps I should leave it alone as MTBFs on HDDs are of the order of 100,000 hours.

Actually I don;t use that much storage on a machine. I have a NAs on my network where I store files not needed very often.

I'm not a big photographer - -photos can eat up disk space in a hurry. The only thing I use my digital camera for is to photograph electrical and mechanical things as I work on them to document the work.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
06-02-2014 08:31 AM
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herbm Offline

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Post: #5
RE: Well, I'm begining to like Windows 7
Well if you do copy the HDD to the SSD, you can always just put the HDD back if the new drive doesn't work.

You might need to boot in safe mode on the NEW drive.

Trying to RAID in hardward is something I can't help you with, not knowing YOUR hardware.

I just raided my laptops 2 SSDs in software using Windows (DiskMgmt).

C: is 100GB on both SSDs, and D: and E: take up the rest of each physical drive.

Once you get Windows to boot, doing that is trivial. (And still you can go back to the HDD if you don't change anything on it.)

Sweet Dreams,

HerbM
Sleep study AHI: 49 RDI: 60 -- APAP 10-11 w/AHI: 1.5 avg for 7-days (up due likely to hip replacement recovery)

"We can all breathe together or we will all suffocate alone."
06-03-2014 12:38 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #6
RE: Well, I'm begining to like Windows 7
Update: I was able to setup RAID 1 as I wished. I picked up two new 1TB WD Black Drives. I used a standalone drive cloner to clone the Seagate system drive to one WD drive, then I installed both WD drives into the machine. On boot, I entered setup and changed the SATA mode from ACHI to RAID. It booted; and I used IRST (Intel Rapid Storage Technology) to build the array. It must have made the regedits to start the RAID drivers instead of the ACHI drivers. I have been happy with that; except the two times when my machine frozen; and I had to power cycle. After a non-normal shutdown, it spends two hours on the next boot running a RAID health check.

I'd like to switch from 2 disk RAID to a single SSD without losing data or reloading the OS. I have a Samsung, 850 Pro 1TB SDD.
If I try to break the RAID first using the RAID BIOS tools, I have read that I'll corrupt the drives. I can clone one of the RAID drives to the SSD as I did to create the array. But, I think the catch 22 is: The SSD may not boot if I set the BIOS SATA mode to ACHI because the OS is not loading the ACHI drivers.

Do we have any advanced experts on this subject matter?

What if I regedit to start the ACHI drivers before removing and cloning the drive? Will the RAID and ACHI drivers being loaded simultaneously create a conflict?

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2014 02:06 PM by justMongo.)
12-02-2014 11:49 AM
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surferdude2 Offline

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Post: #7
RE: Well, I'm begining to like Windows 7
Here is what I consider a safe way to do that:

1. Hook the new SSD up with a USB adapter (or see note below for another option) to a port on the computer. You will likely have to use Windows Disk Management to format and assign it a drive letter before it will be recognized properly.

2. Use XXclone (freeware version) to clone the boot drive of the raid 1 array to the new SSD. (Be careful that you select the source/target drives properly, getting it backwards is tragic!) When it finishes cloning (if it exits the program, reopen it), select the "Boot Up Settings" tab and then the "Make Bootable" option. Tag all three boxes shown in the top row and click "Start". That will rebuild the BCD )bootloader file) for Win7 (or boot.ini if you were using WinXP) to allow the drive to self boot. When it finishes, click the EXIT button to exit the XXclone program.

3. Run regedit and select to mount the hive of the newly cloned drive while still booted to raid. To find the proper ACTIVE ControlSet to edit manually, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Select\Current and see the number displayed which indicates the active ControlSet. Then go to that control set number and edit the following keys as shown:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\<ControlSet determined per above>\services\msahci (set the START value to 0)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\<ControlSet determoned per above>\services\iaStor (set the START value to 0)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\<ControlSet determined per above>\services\iaStorV (set the START value to 0)

4. Disconnect and remove the raid drives and install and connect the newly cloned drive.

5. Power up the computer and enter the bios setup routine. Change the boot setting to allow AHCI boot. Exit and save. Windows should boot if all went properly. If it fails with no hope of repairing it, just hook the raid array back up and regroup. Since this doesn't change the raid drives, I think that provides ample safety so you can be protected against the unexpected.

note: If for any reason you can't boot the SSD via USB adapter, then you could connect it as a third drive to the existing system or remove the secondary raid drive and replace it with the SSD. Either of those choices should work and still allow mounting the hive and editing it before removing the array.

edit. Changed key start strings to turn all to ON mode to make this process applicable to a wider variety of systems.
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2014 07:47 PM by surferdude2.)
12-03-2014 04:37 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #8
RE: Well, I'm begining to like Windows 7
I'll try that tomorrow. BTW - running W7 64 bit

I can see a possibility of my corrupting the RAID volume with a bad regedit; since I have a spare HDD in the drawer, I'll yank a drive from the RAID array and use my standalone cloner to image it. Then, if it goes awry, I have that to put back in and rebuild the RAID array.

Looking in my registry, I have two control sets (likley because it was single drive ACHI then converted to RAID 1.)
And, there is CurrentControlSet.
Current Control set has the start values:
Msahci = 3
IastorV = 3
IastorF = 0
IastorA = 0

I don't see Iastor.

Is a start value = 3 a key to start (and zero = no start)? I thought zero was start!

BTW -- I have Intel IRST version 12.0.2.1001 on here.

(And BTW, there is a 3rd non-RAID drive I use as a scratch disk -- a 250GB VelociRaptor short-stroked to 50GB.)

I do have a nice little SATA III to USB3 device.

IRST report:
System Report

System Information
OS name: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional
OS version: 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 7601
System name: CRYSTAL-ONYX
System manufacturer: Dell Inc.
System model: XPS 8700
Processor: GenuineIntel Intel64 Family 6 Model 60 Stepping 3 3.401 GHz
BIOS: Dell Inc., A07

Intel® Rapid Storage Technology enterprise Information
User interface version: 12.0.2.1001
Language: English (United States)
RAID option ROM version: 12.6.0.1867
Driver version: 12.0.0.1082
ISDI version: 12.0.2.1001

Storage System Information
RAID Configuration

Array Name: SATA_Array_0000
Size: 1,907,739 MB
Available space: 2 MB
Number of volumes: 1
Volume member: Volume_0001
Number of array disks: 2
Array disk: WD-WCC3F1993446
Array disk: WD-WCC3F2036047
Disk data cache: Enabled

Volume name: Volume_0001
Status: Normal
Type: RAID 1
Size: 953,868 MB
System volume: Yes
Data stripe size: 64 KB
Write-back cache: Off
Initialized: Yes
Parity errors: 0
Blocks with media errors: 0
Physical sector size: 4096 Bytes
Logical sector size: 512 Bytes

Hardware Information

Controller name: Intel® Desktop/Workstation/Server Express Chipset SATA RAID Controller
Type: SATA
Mode: RAID
Number of SATA ports: 4
Number of volumes: 1
Volume: Volume_0001
Number of spares: 0
Number of available disks: 1
Rebuild on Hot Plug: Disabled
Manufacturer: 32902
Model number: 10274
Product revision: 5
Direct attached disk: WD-WCC3F1993446
Direct attached disk: WD-WCC3F2036047
Direct attached disk: WD-WXU1E83HRKU3

Disk on Controller 0, Port 0
Status: Normal
Type: SATA disk
Location type: Internal
Usage: Array disk
Size: 932 GB
System disk: No
Disk data cache: Enabled
Command queuing: NCQ
SATA transfer rate: 6 Gb/s
Model: WDC WD1003FZEX-00MK2A0
Serial number: WD-WCC3F1993446
SCSI device ID: 0
Firmware: 01.01A01
Physical sector size: 4096 Bytes
Logical sector size: 512 Bytes

Disk on Controller 0, Port 2
Status: Normal
Type: SATA disk
Location type: Internal
Usage: Array disk
Size: 932 GB
System disk: No
Disk data cache: Enabled
Command queuing: NCQ
SATA transfer rate: 6 Gb/s
Model: WDC WD1003FZEX-00MK2A0
Serial number: WD-WCC3F2036047
SCSI device ID: 2
Firmware: 01.01A01
Physical sector size: 4096 Bytes
Logical sector size: 512 Bytes

Disk on Controller 0, Port 3
Status: Normal
Type: SATA disk
Location type: Internal
Usage: Available
Size: 233 GB
System disk: No
Disk data cache: Enabled
Command queuing: NCQ
SATA transfer rate: 6 Gb/s
Model: WDC WD2500HHTZ-04N21V0
Serial number: WD-WXU1E83HRKU3
SCSI device ID: 3
Firmware: 04.06A00
Physical sector size: 4096 Bytes
Logical sector size: 512 Bytes

ATAPI device on Controller 0, Port 1
Location type: Internal
SATA transfer rate: 1.5 Gb/s
Model: TSSTcorp DVD+/-RW SH-216DB
Serial number: S10Q6YAF200KWK
Firmware: D100

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 09:52 PM by justMongo.)
12-03-2014 09:21 PM
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surferdude2 Offline

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Post: #9
RE: Well, I'm begining to like Windows 7
Be certain that you are editing the ACTIVE control set key since it isn't always the key dubbed CURRENT control set. The active key is determined by the method I outlined in the other post. The settings of the reg keys were taken from my system which is running Win7 under AHCI but since you find additional keys then I would set them all to 0 since that should work regardless.

Reference http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showt...ng-Windows

I must also mention that I had XXclone fail on one occasion and although it appeared to work properly, it produced a drive that Windows balked on at the welcome screen and gave a message stating that the Windows version was not genuine. I couldn't boot that system further so I started over and used a disk imaging software (AOMEI) to image the source and then deployed that image to the target drive (right over the cloned data since it gets wiped in the process) and went forward with success. You may or may not have that problem but it may be better to choose the imaging method from the outset.
12-03-2014 10:13 PM
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surferdude2 Offline

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Post: #10
RE: Well, I'm begining to like Windows 7
Just to reassure you, I set all of the control keys in my Win7 system to 0 (in all of the control sets, just to be certain) and it booted just fine. Rechecking, they are still set at 0. Apparently Windows doesn't care how those keys are set unless you are running a raid array. I have three different keys:

CurrentControlSet
ControlSet001
ControlSet002

The active one was the ControlSet001 on my system but yours may be different.

With that knowledge I surmise that it would be possible to convert a raid drive to ahci by editing those keys to 0 and then resetting the bios. I'm not about to advise you to do that unless you are like me and have ample backup images for a safety net. I don't currently run raid on any of my boxes so I can't experiment to test that. I long ago quit using raid arrays and rely on daily incremental images for better protection against data loss. AOMEI is a great freeware for making drive images and incremental additions, unlike all the other free imaging tools I have tested. It even works better than the imaging tools that I have paid for, Ghost, Acronis and another one I forget the name of.
12-03-2014 10:43 PM
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