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What Battery Back up System do you use ? Post Pics
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: What Battery Back up System do you use ? Post Pics
If you are going to be using (and encouraging) images, may I suggest you use a simple image editing software (such as the free IrfanView) to resize the images before uploading them? That way they aren't so freakin' big and cumbersome. If you are hot linking an image (inputting the direct link of the image from the source, such as another website), well, that's different. Just take a few moments to see if they have a smaller one, please?

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-27-2014 06:28 PM
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Labrat0116 Offline

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Post: #12
RE: What Battery Back up System do you use ? Post Pics
(08-27-2014 06:28 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  If you are going to be using (and encouraging) images, may I suggest you use a simple image editing software (such as the free IrfanView) to resize the images before uploading them? That way they aren't so freakin' big and cumbersome. If you are hot linking an image (inputting the direct link of the image from the source, such as another website), well, that's different. Just take a few moments to see if they have a smaller one, please?
Sure thing. BTW, they are hot linked. Right click on the image will show you the source.

Are you on Dial-Up ??


Nein!

Because of "On Battery Waveform Simulated Sine Wave "

Better choice is: Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD because it has:
"On Battery Waveform Pure Sine Wave"
[/quote]What is the difference in Pure and Simulated Wave Form ??
(This post was last modified: 08-27-2014 06:38 PM by Labrat0116.)
08-27-2014 06:36 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #13
RE: What Battery Back up System do you use ? Post Pics
(08-27-2014 06:36 PM)Labrat0116 Wrote:  
(08-27-2014 02:37 PM)justMongo Wrote:  
Nein!

Because of "On Battery Waveform Simulated Sine Wave "

Better choice is: Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD because it has:
"On Battery Waveform Pure Sine Wave"
What is the difference in Pure and Simulated Wave Form ??
[/quote]

The pure sine wave should be obvious. A simulated sine wave is done be a step approximation. They might divide the cycle into 8 or 10 or 12 or 16 segments; then use a step function to approximate a sine wave. The steps are discontinuities in the pure sine wave and each step contains harmonic frequencies. (Fourier transform and theorem.)

Then the CPAP's switching supply contains inductors; and they don't like discontinuities.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-27-2014 08:03 PM
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Labrat0116 Offline

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Post: #14
RE: What Battery Back up System do you use ? Post Pics
(08-27-2014 08:03 PM)justMongo Wrote:  The pure sine wave should be obvious. A simulated sine wave is done be a step approximation. They might divide the cycle into 8 or 10 or 12 or 16 segments; then use a step function to approximate a sine wave. The steps are discontinuities in the pure sine wave and each step contains harmonic frequencies. (Fourier transform and theorem.)

Then the CPAP's switching supply contains inductors; and they don't like discontinuities.
Thanks for the breakdown.

It would have been obvious if I knew what a Sine wave was. Cool

For those that don't know, here's the Wiki info on it.

Quote:The sine wave or sinusoid is a mathematical curve that describes a smooth repetitive oscillation. It is named after the function sine, of which it is the graph. It occurs often in pure and applied mathematics, as well as physics, engineering, signal processing and many other fields. Its most basic form as a function of time (t) is:

y(t) = A\sin(2 \pi f t + \varphi) = A\sin(\omega t + \varphi)
08-27-2014 08:37 PM
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Labrat0116 Offline

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Post: #15
RE: What Battery Back up System do you use ? Post Pics
(08-27-2014 08:37 PM)Labrat0116 Wrote:  
(08-27-2014 08:03 PM)justMongo Wrote:  The pure sine wave should be obvious. A simulated sine wave is done be a step approximation. They might divide the cycle into 8 or 10 or 12 or 16 segments; then use a step function to approximate a sine wave. The steps are discontinuities in the pure sine wave and each step contains harmonic frequencies. (Fourier transform and theorem.)

Then the CPAP's switching supply contains inductors; and they don't like discontinuities.
Thanks for the breakdown.

It would have been obvious if I knew what a Sine wave was. Cool

For those that don't know, here's the Wiki info on it.

Quote:The sine wave or sinusoid is a mathematical curve that describes a smooth repetitive oscillation. It is named after the function sine, of which it is the graph. It occurs often in pure and applied mathematics, as well as physics, engineering, signal processing and many other fields. Its most basic form as a function of time (t) is:

y(t) = A\sin(2 \pi f t + \varphi) = A\sin(\omega t + \varphi)

So the UPS (below) should be good then correct ? Being rated at 600 Watts and my CPAP at 60 Watts, it "should" theoretically have a Runtime of around (10) hours correct ?

[link removed]


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Moderator Action: Link Removed
To maintain our status as an educational organization, the only commercial links allowed in this forum are to CPAP-related manufacturer websites. This is stated in the Apnea Board Rules with details given in the Commercial Links Policy section.
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(This post was last modified: 08-27-2014 08:42 PM by Labrat0116.)
08-27-2014 08:41 PM
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Terry Offline

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Post: #16
RE: What Battery Back up System do you use ? Post Pics
(08-27-2014 12:50 PM)justMongo Wrote:  Terry -- I hope that's your stationary backup plan. I'd hate to backpack that deep cycle Marine battery.

It stays in the SUV under the back floor panel, and I run an extension cord to the tent.

Don't really care if it's not exceptionally efficient, since I actually have two of the batteries. It's more than enough for a long weekend of camping or an extended power failure. With a couple of fans and a light. And a laptop.

If I were backpacking, I'd probably pick up a 12V Lithium Polymer battery pack. 12V @ 20 Ah is about 4 pounds and should run the machine with no humidifier for a couple of nights. However I'm bringing a 5000Lb vehicle, so an extra 150Lbs isn't a big deal. 8-)
(This post was last modified: 08-27-2014 10:39 PM by Terry.)
08-27-2014 10:35 PM
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MAPnea Offline

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Post: #17
RE: What Battery Back up System do you use ? Post Pics
(08-27-2014 02:33 PM)JohnNJ Wrote:  I use this:

http://www.resmed.com/us/en/consumer/pro...ps-ii.html

It was covered by my insurance.

Hi, JohnNJ,
Do you recall how much this cost?
Thanks!
08-27-2014 11:40 PM
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JohnNJ Offline

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Post: #18
RE: What Battery Back up System do you use ? Post Pics
(08-27-2014 11:40 PM)MAPnea Wrote:  
(08-27-2014 02:33 PM)JohnNJ Wrote:  I use this:

http://www.resmed.com/us/en/consumer/pro...ps-ii.html

It was covered by my insurance.

Hi, JohnNJ,
Do you recall how much this cost?
Thanks!

One of the DME's on the list had it listed for $699 and there's an adapter that's needed for the S9 for another $49.

My insurance covered it all so I didn't pay anything for it.

UPDATE: That DME (#1 on the list) now bundles the adapter with the battery, both for $674.95.
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2014 08:07 AM by JohnNJ.)
08-28-2014 04:12 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #19
RE: What Battery Back up System do you use ? Post Pics
(08-27-2014 08:41 PM)Labrat0116 Wrote:  So the UPS (below) should be good then correct ? Being rated at 600 Watts and my CPAP at 60 Watts, it "should" theoretically have a Runtime of around (10) hours correct ?

Your comparing rates. You have to compare energy which can be expressed in Watt-hours (which are like Joules; 1 Joule = 1 Watt-second.)

Here's a rough example.
Suppose the conversion from battery to 120 VAC is 100% efficient and that the conversion in the power brick from 120 VAC to 24 Volts is also 100% efficient.
Suppose the battery is a 12 Volt, 25 Amp-hour capacity.
Pulling 5 Amps from will use energy at a rate of 5 x 12 = 60 Watts.
But, 25 Amp-hour/5 Amp = 5 hours maximum before the battery is drained (and they never discharge to full Amp-hour capacity.)

The system might be fully capable of producing 600 Watts -- but the battery would be drained in 1/10 the time = 0.5 hours.

Also, in the above 5 hour example, neither converter is 100% efficient; nor is the Amp-Hour capacity of the battery in the UPS likely to have a capacity of 25 Amp-hour.

These pure sine computer type backup will get you through short term black outs and condition the power in areas where regulation is poor.
You might get one night with no humidifier.

That's why most folks are looking a car battery size batteries -- capable of deep cycle such as Marine use. The most efficient way from that battery to the xPAP is to buy the converter made for running the the machine off a 12 Volt battery

Lead acid gel cells, AGM, and the Optima AGM Spiral cell battery do not outgas when used with a proper charger. Nor do they spill -- you can mount them upside down if need be.

[Moderator Note: commercial link removed per Apnea Board rules - suggestion: just tell people to do a Google search for "yellowtop optima batteries" (without giving the direct link]





-----
Moderator Action: Link Removed
To maintain our status as an educational organization, the only commercial links allowed in this forum are to CPAP-related manufacturer websites. This is stated in the Apnea Board Rules with details given in the Commercial Links Policy section.
-----

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-28-2014 08:54 AM
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Labrat0116 Offline

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Post: #20
RE: What Battery Back up System do you use ? Post Pics
(08-28-2014 08:54 AM)justMongo Wrote:  These pure sine computer type backup will get you through short term black outs and condition the power in areas where regulation is poor.
You might get one night with no humidifier.

That's why most folks are looking a car battery size batteries -- capable of deep cycle such as Marine use. The most efficient way from that battery to the xPAP is to buy the converter made for running the the machine off a 12 Volt battery

Lead acid gel cells, AGM, and the Optima AGM Spiral cell battery do not outgas when used with a proper charger. Nor do they spill -- you can mount them upside down if need be.
Great info Mongo! I appreciate it! I think I'm finally getting my head around this.

I really do like the UPS option. The idea of "Uninterrupted" power during a blackout is very appealing. Having to unplug and replug would only interrupt one's sleep even more than necessary.

What's the better option when going to a stand alone car/marine battery for connection. Inverter or Direct connection ?

Also, I worry about having to recharge a large battery in a bedroom setting. ie SAFETY factor. Is a trickle type charger sufficient in this application ?
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2014 12:37 PM by Labrat0116.)
08-28-2014 12:31 PM
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