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What is Normal Average Leak Rate?
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Lanco Offline

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Machine: Resmed S9 Autoset, Apex XT Fit
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Post: #11
RE: What is Normal Average Leak Rate?
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08-07-2016 06:34 PM
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Lanco Offline

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Posts: 153
Joined: Jun 2016

Machine: Resmed S9 Autoset, Apex XT Fit
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Apex Wizard 210 & Profile Lite, Wizard 220 FFM, Nuance
Humidifier: Resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 8.5-17
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: Easy Compliance Software 3.2.1 and Easy Compliance Lite Software 3.4

Sex: Male
Location: Pensacola, Florida

Post: #12
RE: What is Normal Average Leak Rate?
These may help. It's a copy of a pdf that my software prints out.

I think it is so simple really. I have deduced that my software is showing total air flow, leaks, maybe open mouth and exhaust from my nasal mask.

So, if it is showing average leaks around 50, and my mask at has exhaust of about 25 when my cmH2o is around 8-9, then it makes sense that the 25 is subtracted from the 50 leaving a difference of about 25 which I assume are mask leaks and open mouth.

If that is the case then, I guess since I keep seeing this magic number of 24 as being ok that apparently comes on other software then I guess I'm ok here. Doesn't this make sense? I mean this can't be rocket science. But since I just started out and all of this is brand new to me (with an auto cpap that is, otherwise with a constant pressure machine for 16 years) then I'm thinking other educated opinions would be a good idea.

And also, I get up a few times a night to assist my disabled wife, hence the drop-offs.

Thanks for the input.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2016 06:45 PM by Lanco.)
08-07-2016 06:43 PM
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Lanco Offline

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Posts: 153
Joined: Jun 2016

Machine: Resmed S9 Autoset, Apex XT Fit
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Apex Wizard 210 & Profile Lite, Wizard 220 FFM, Nuance
Humidifier: Resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 8.5-17
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: Easy Compliance Software 3.2.1 and Easy Compliance Lite Software 3.4

Sex: Male
Location: Pensacola, Florida

Post: #13
RE: What is Normal Average Leak Rate?
(08-07-2016 06:28 PM)Sleepster Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 08:19 PM)Lanco Wrote:  Below is what my respiratory therapist said when I questioned all the leaks. Average being around 50 l/m Highest Leak being 74 and Lowest Leak being 7:

"If your total AHI is 2.23 then that is acceptable. I wouldn't overthink this too much. Regardless of the leak, if your AHI is that low, then you are good. Textbook normal is less than 5."

I would not agree with that. You need to look at the leak rate graph for each night. If it goes up and down a lot, that means you're leaking. If you have a well-fitting nasal mask then it's likely the leaks are from your mouth. The remedy is a chin strap. If that doesn't work, a full face mask.


Thanks for the answer. But I think first I need to determine if the data I'm getting is good enough to not need a chin strap or face mask which of course I have no desire to use unless absolutely necessary. This is what I'm trying to find out really.
08-07-2016 06:52 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: What is Normal Average Leak Rate?
If the software was SleepyHead, I'd say you were opening your mouth. A lot. Looking at the flat top of the leak rate, that's when you are doing it. Then when it suddenly drops, that's when you close it. But again, not knowing the baseline of the machine, it is hard to tell.

(08-06-2016 08:19 PM)Lanco Wrote:  Below is what my respiratory therapist said when I questioned all the leaks. Average being around 50 l/m Highest Leak being 74 and Lowest Leak being 7:

"If your total AHI is 2.23 then that is acceptable. I wouldn't overthink this too much. Regardless of the leak, if your AHI is that low, then you are good. Textbook normal is less than 5."

That's a crock of bloney. If you are experiencing a lot of leaks, then the machine is missing events. Or flagging events that aren't happening. Yes, the goal is less than 5. At least they got something right.

Think of it this way. You have the speedometer and the RPMs and the transmission. Push on the pedal, the speed goes up on the speedometer. RPMs go up, too. Now, the transmission slips. The RPMs will go really high, indicating a problem. But the speedometer doesn't. If the car goes downhill, it will. But is it because the gas pedal is being pushed harder? Or because it is downhill? If the car goes uphill, it will slow down. Again, is it because the pedal is being pushed less?

Same with the AHI, pressure, and leaks. If the leak is bad enough (transmission slips), then the machine has to work harder to detect if it is needed. It can give false readings. It can miss even more.

PaulaO2
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-08-2016 12:30 AM
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Lanco Offline

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Posts: 153
Joined: Jun 2016

Machine: Resmed S9 Autoset, Apex XT Fit
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Apex Wizard 210 & Profile Lite, Wizard 220 FFM, Nuance
Humidifier: Resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 8.5-17
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: Easy Compliance Software 3.2.1 and Easy Compliance Lite Software 3.4

Sex: Male
Location: Pensacola, Florida

Post: #15
RE: What is Normal Average Leak Rate?
(08-08-2016 12:30 AM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  If the software was SleepyHead, I'd say you were opening your mouth. A lot. Looking at the flat top of the leak rate, that's when you are doing it. Then when it suddenly drops, that's when you close it. But again, not knowing the baseline of the machine, it is hard to tell.

Thanks for answer, but, Just a reminder, those drops down to nothing is when I get out of bed to assist my disabled wife. So, now what does all this mean?
08-08-2016 01:12 AM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Machine: S9 Autoset
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CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #16
RE: What is Normal Average Leak Rate?
Not a clue. If Apnea Board does not have the manual for that machine, then search the Google webz for the "intentional leak rate" of your machine. Then determine if the software is displaying the entire leak rate or just what is above the intentional leak rate.

Other than that, we are tossing darts in the dark.

PaulaO2
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-08-2016 05:21 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #17
RE: What is Normal Average Leak Rate?
The total leak rate is the sum of the intentional leak rate and the unintentional leak rate.

ResMed machines report only the unintentional leak rate, and they do claim that as long as it's under 24 L/min you're good. Personally, I'm not happy unless mine is almost zero. Leaks are noisy, they bother me and disturb my sleep, and I just don't like them.

There's really no harm in trying a chin strap to see what it does for you. Many people make them out of an Ace bandage or the like. You can also buy them on Amazon without a prescription. Mouth-leaking is a serious issue. It renders the CPAP therapy useless because the pressure splint can't be maintained and your airway collapses just as if you had no CPAP machine at all.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-08-2016 09:34 PM
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Newbee2016 Offline

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Machine: Apex XT Auto
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Post: #18
RE: What is Normal Average Leak Rate?
I'm using the Apex XT Auto and Wisp Nasal Mask. These are 2 snapshots of my results.

Good Night
   

Bad Night
   

So average leaks on a good night is around 20LPM with the Wisp.

Your pressure setting seems a bit wide. I shifted mine up to 7.5 (from initial 6) and started getting better results.

p/s.

My nasal cushion has already been boiled once and is washed weekly. Have 2 fresh ones on standby, but trying to see the lifespan of these silicones Thinking-about. Same one I've been using since the start of this journey early this year.
(This post was last modified: 08-11-2016 10:09 AM by Newbee2016.)
08-11-2016 09:59 AM
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green wings Offline

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Post: #19
RE: What is Normal Average Leak Rate?
Thanks for this info, Newbee. Your leak rate is very similar to my total leak rate when I was using the Wisp mask a few months ago.

You are getting much longer cushion life than I did with that mask, though. After 4-5 weeks with one cushion, I would start to get lots of leaks around the bridge of my nose.

(08-11-2016 09:59 AM)Newbee2016 Wrote:  I'm using the Apex XT Auto and Wisp Nasal Mask. These are 2 snapshots of my results.

Good Night


Bad Night


So average leaks on a good night is around 20LPM with the Wisp.

Your pressure setting seems a bit wide. I shifted mine up to 7.5 (from initial 6) and started getting better results.

p/s.

My nasal cushion has already been boiled once and is washed weekly. Have 2 fresh ones on standby, but trying to see the lifespan of these silicones Thinking-about. Same one I've been using since the start of this journey early this year.
08-11-2016 10:53 AM
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icyura10 Offline

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Post: #20
RE: What is Normal Average Leak Rate?
It seems to me, there's another component to this that hasn't been discussed about leakage.

That being one's O2 saturation. I haven't anything to back up what I'm about to put forward for thought, but just because your AHI's are within what might be perceived as being the "normal range", should your leak values be astronomical, your O2 saturation may suffer significantly.

I can only suspect long term O2 desaturation, where your O2 saturation continually falls below 90% could be detrimental to your overall health, meaning, other organs might be affected.. entirely to many to articulate.

Just my thinking.

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08-11-2016 12:09 PM
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