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What's It Like When The Power Goes Out? Battery Backup (UPS)?
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Dennis of the NorthWet Offline

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Post: #1
Question What's It Like When The Power Goes Out? Battery Backup (UPS)?
Where we live we have at least a few power outages each year. I'm interested to hear about what others have experienced when their power has gone out while they were asleep using a CPAP.

In that some air moves through the vent in my mask I'm pretty sure I would not suffocate should I not awaken, but I could be wrong. Likely some strange dreams at least =80.

Low on air experiences???

I suppose the best solution would be to use a battery back up system such as a prudent computer user would. A UPS (uninterpretable power supply) can, depending on it's size ($) keep a computer gong for a good while, and usually sounds an audible alarm if activated by a power outage. Anybody out there use one of these with their CPAP? My problem with the UPS on my computer is that the alert tone it gives is pretty much out of my hearing range. But that's another issue. Radio Shack probably sells something that squawks if the power goes out.

Regards,
Dennis
10-20-2012 02:09 AM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #2
RE: What's It Like When The Power Goes Out??? Battery Backup (UPS)?
The theory seems to be that if the blower unit fails, and you're wearing a nasal mask, you'll open your mouth the same way you would if your nose clogs up during the night. Unless you tape your mouth shut like some people do.

The vent holes actually don't help much if the blower quits, because when the blower quits, the pressure in the mask drops to zero, and the air you exhale and inhale goes back through the CPAP machine and in and out through the air filter on the back of the machine. There is a risk that you'll breathe too much stale air because you're rebreathing your own exhaled air.

That's why all full face masks have an anti-asphyxia vent. It opens up if the pressure goes away and you breathe in and out through it.

Even with the mouth or anti asphyxia vent open, you're still back to having apnea. Most of us long term CPAPers will probably wake up, but that's not a sure thing.

Most home computer UPSs will not run a CPAP for very long at all. Some people rig up a DC system with a deep cycle marine battery about the size and weight of a car battery. For the ResMed S9, you also need the ResMed DC-DC converter that costs $80 or so. Designing a reliable full time DC power system like this does require a little knowledge to do it correctly.

Some people have bought loud power off alarms that plug into the wall.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
10-20-2012 05:09 AM
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PollCat Offline
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Post: #3
RE: What's It Like When The Power Goes Out??? Battery Backup (UPS)?
Interesting! I've always awoken immediately when the power went out. While trying to figure out why I've awoken, I look at the ceiling fan and then the clock radio. If they are both off, I wait (im)patiently for the power to come back on, or go dig out the AEIOmed machine with its built-in 8-hour battery (which hopefully I keep fully charged).


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.
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10-20-2012 07:20 AM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #4
RE: What's It Like When The Power Goes Out??? Battery Backup (UPS)?
(10-20-2012 02:09 AM)Dennis of the NorthWet Wrote:  I suppose the best solution would be to use a battery back up system such as a prudent computer user would.

That's what I use. I've slept through several short power outages with it. Without it, I wake up as soon as the power goes out.

It has two lead-acid batteries the size of motorcycle batteries. I think it would give m only a few hours because I have my heated humidifier on.

If we ever were to have a long power outage I'd have to pull the battery out of my car and hook it up.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2012 08:56 AM by Sleepster.)
10-20-2012 08:56 AM
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britincanada Offline

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Post: #5
RE: What's It Like When The Power Goes Out??? Battery Backup (UPS)?
I Am New to this Sleep Apnea thing I Was Diagnosed After my wife spotted me not breathing and snoring i had a Sleep test Told me i have Mixed Sleep Apnea

I Have Been on A Bi-pap machine now for 8 Weeks or So And Feel Great

But i did come on here Asking the ? what happens when the power goes out

now i know that nearly all interfaces have relive Valves that open when there's no pressure i e no power so you can breath

I Suppose my Answer would be i managed for a Full week after my over night hospital visit feeling Great without a machine hooked up

So is it that important or unnecessary to have a Battery backup i think most on cpap could survive one or two nights with out it ?
10-20-2012 08:58 AM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Post: #6
RE: What's It Like When The Power Goes Out??? Battery Backup (UPS)?
I always wake up when the power goes out... we have a carbon monoxide detector that gives a loud "beep" plus the UPS for my computer beeps as well, making sure I"m awake.

But I think I'd wake up anyway because of the airflow stopping from the CPAP.

I have a couple of 6-volt Trojan deep cycle batteries hooked up in series for a total of 12 volts - these are topped off every day my cheap Harbor Freight solar panel system ($150-175 for a 45-watt kit, includes charger controller, wires and adapters for cellphones & USB type charging, cig light adapter & two 12-volt CLF bulbs) [see pic below].

Like Bob, if the power goes out, I first wait a few seconds or minutes to see if it comes back on (usually does)... if not, I get out my ResMed 12-volt adapter [see pic below] and hook 'er up to the batteries. Back to sleep in 5 minutes or so. Coffee

[Image: attachment.php?aid=279]

[Image: attachment.php?aid=280]


Attached File(s) Thumbnail(s)
       

SuperSleeper
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

10-20-2012 11:15 AM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Post: #7
RE: What's It Like When The Power Goes Out??? Battery Backup (UPS)?
FYI.... Here's some thread links dealing with CPAP and power outages, including alternative power sources, etc.:


WARNING to CPAP Users: PREPARE for the Unexpected - When the power goes out

Need battery operated CPAP for camping

Camping with a CPAP or surviving a power outage

My answer to camping / backup problem


Smile

SuperSleeper
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

10-20-2012 11:24 AM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: What's It Like When The Power Goes Out? Battery Backup (UPS)?
With my old S7, if the power went out, I almost always slept right through it. But with the S9, I wake up immediately because I can't breathe. I sit up and jerk the mask off.

PaulaO2
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Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
10-20-2012 11:39 AM
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Dennis of the NorthWet Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
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Mask Make & Model: Philips Respironics - TrueBlue
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CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Location: 4th Corner - Blaine WA

Post: #9
RE: What's It Like When The Power Goes Out??? Battery Backup (UPS)?
(10-20-2012 05:09 AM)archangle Wrote:  The theory seems to be that if the blower unit fails, and you're wearing a nasal mask, you'll open your mouth the same way you would if your nose clogs up during the night. Unless you tape your mouth shut like some people do.

A likely physiological response, but this would usually be as a result of a slow onset situation of plugging up. A quick end to air input would me more like having someone come in and pinch off your nose... Guess I'd just have to wait and see on this issue. Or, have the wife sneak up and unplug the machine

(10-20-2012 05:09 AM)archangle Wrote:  The vent holes actually don't help much if the blower quits, because when the blower quits, the pressure in the mask drops to zero, and the air you exhale and inhale goes back through the CPAP machine and in and out through the air filter on the back of the machine. There is a risk that you'll breathe too much stale air because you're rebreathing your own exhaled air.

I know from diving that due to the small "tidal" volume of air actually moved in each breath that a tube (snorkel) longer than about a foot and a half will not allow for adequate fresh air exchange and will result in a buildup of CO2 in one's system, which should lead to breathing distress which would likely wake up a sleeper.

The longer the tube the worse the situation, as the same air just goes back and forth in the tube, the O2 getting depleted by about 20% with each breath. With CPAP tubing being around six feet, the air within would indeed be shortly depleted of adequate O2.

If the Anti-Asphyxiation vent on a full face is large enough to allow 20% fresh air with each inhalation cycle, then enough O2 should be available to keep one well alive, if not totally comfortable.


(10-20-2012 05:09 AM)archangle Wrote:  Most home computer UPSs will not run a CPAP for very long at all. Some people rig up a DC system with a deep cycle marine battery about the size and weight of a car battery.

I think this would depend entirely on the size of the UPS some are huge and are larger than a car battery. Are they not just sophisticated inverter systems, doing the same job that the 12v converter would do? And they are auto switching with line power loss.

(10-20-2012 05:09 AM)archangle Wrote:  For the ResMed S9, you also need the ResMed DC-DC converter that costs $80 or so. Designing a reliable full time DC power system like this does require a little knowledge to do it correctly.

For a long term outage, this converter would indeed be the rat's patutie.
Anyone out there have a spare they would like to move along? Unlikely.
Our power outages have run as long as a day or two, and other locals on a somewhat different grid have been out longer than a week. Looks as if I need to do a bit of prepping here.


(10-20-2012 05:09 AM)archangle Wrote:  Some people have bought loud power off alarms that plug into the wall.

This looks to be the easy solution to the power outage issue, actual sleep apnea aside.

Many thanks for the input.

Dennis
10-20-2012 01:09 PM
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Dennis of the NorthWet Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Philips Respironics - TrueBlue
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CPAP Pressure: 7
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: 4th Corner - Blaine WA

Post: #10
RE: What's It Like When The Power Goes Out??? Battery Backup (UPS)?
(10-20-2012 11:15 AM)SuperSleeper Wrote:  .......I have a couple of 6-volt Trojan deep cycle batteries hooked up in series for a total of 12 volts - these are topped off every day my cheap Harbor Freight solar panel system ($150-175 for a 45-watt kit, includes charger controller, wires and adapters for cellphones & USB type charging, cig light adapter & two 12-volt CLF bulbs)

Like Bob, if the power goes out, I first wait a few seconds or minutes to see if it comes back on (usually does)... if not, I get out my ResMed 12-volt adapter [see pic below] and hook 'er up to the batteries. Back to sleep in 5 minutes or so.
The solar deal looks a good backup for several possible power out situations. Think one of those HF kits will go on the shopping list. One just can't have enough stuff ya' know. Only issue for me here in the NorthWet is that when the power is out it's usually stormy and raining as usual, and not much solar energy to be collected.

Not to stray too far from CPAP tunes, how does the HF solar stuff compare to other options?

Regards,
Dennis
10-20-2012 03:05 PM
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