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Why CPAP and APAP machines.
#1
Hi All!

First post and first week on CPAP machine done! Still early stages I think and still getting used to the mask. I have decided to rent a machine before actually buying, and do a bit of my own as to what I want.

What I'd like to ask is why do they have CPAP and APAP machines? surely an automatic machine would suffice - or are there instances where you want a specific pressure? My sleep study suggested 10cm H20 and the supplier gave me a machine and set it to AUTO saying it will suffice.

Thank for a MOST informative forum. I have already learned heaps!

Grant.ThanksThanksThanks
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#2
G'day Grant - welcome to Apnea Board.

In the beginning there were only fixed pressure machines, no APAPs. (In fact the very first experimental unit used the blower from a vacuum cleaner)! Nowadays we have fully automatic machines with full data capabilities, but for reasons best known to themselves, the manufacturers still put out fixed pressure units and - even worse - units with no useful data capability. There are members on this and other forums who have pulled the machines apart and tell us there is no physical difference in the innards, only the software / firmware is changed. Why do the companies do this? Well, I've never been one for conspiracy theories but I'll wager somebody is making a buck somewhere along the line.

98% of the people on this forum will tell you to get an autoset machine, and give you a lot of solid reasons (not the least being that if you need a fixed pressure, the autoset can easily deliver that). One or two people have tried APAP and get better therapy and improved sleep using a fixed pressure. And it does seem that there are still some sleep doctors who don't believe in new-newfangled auto this'n'that! Smile
DeepBreathing
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#3
Great reply - Thank you Paul!
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#4
By the way Grant - which model machine and mask do you have? The S8 you've listed for the mask is actually a machine model (a pretty old one). The masks tend to have names like Quattro and Mirage though the latest range have reverted to numbers (P10, N10 and F10). If you have in fact got an S8 machine I hope you got a huge discount!

DeepBreathing
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#5
Welcome to the forum cohngr,
Definetly go for the APAP machine. You can use an APAP in auto mode or CPAP mode.

Here is a link for you to help gain some insight as to the newer machines available and some which you may want to avoid. This way, when you are ready to buy, you will be informed. Good luck.
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...ne_Choices

Also, there is a supplier list, see top of page. You can check out Supplier #2, as they sell used APAP's, and also open box, 0 hours new machines. It may or may not be cost effective to have one shipped verses buying local.
OpalRose
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.




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#6
Hi again Paul

It is an S8 - but just a rental - I will go for a much more recent model when have to buy one.
The mask .... I believe is an el-cheapo Chinese thing (sold to me by an unscrupulous person before I knew much about these things!).
It does seem to do the trick though....

Thanks for the extra feedback!
Grant
Oh yes Miss Rose :-).... So many thank for that link!

Grant!
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#7
APAP machines have straight CPAP modes, so there is no conceivable reason to offer a straight CPAP. Other than marketing. I suspect many folks first get a CPAP brick foisted on them, and then want an upgrade to a data capable CPAP and finally an APAP. The evil marketers get to sell three machines rather than one that will do everything.

OMMOHY
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#8
Greetings cohngr,

Glad you are being proactive on your treatment. The medical folks do not live in your body, you do; so it is always a good idea to know what is going on.

The data is SO helpful - it really tells you and the medical staff what is going with YOU as you get used to the XPAP as time marches on.
Evpraxia in the Pacific Northwest USA
Diagnosed: 44 AHI when supine, O2 down to 82%
Treated since 20 Sept 2014:: 0.7 AHI, Settings 7-15, EPR on Full Time at Level 3
Better living through CPAP/APAP machines!
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#9
Personally, I'm all for APAP because, I get good results at (mostly) much lower pressure than with CPAP.
My prescribed pressure for CPAP was 15 cmH2O. My APAP runs 90% of the time at 10.5 or lower!
IF I had a dumb CPAP with no data capability, I couldn't even evaluate the effectiveness of the treatment other than by judging how I feel in the morning.
With a data capable CPAP, I could evaluate the treatment and maybe try lower pressures. With a really smart CPAP like DreamStation Pro, I could let the machine evaluate and adjust the pressure in long term but it would still not react to events in real time. If I set lower pressure, I'd be sometimes subjected to periods of high AHI
With APAP, the machine reacts and adjusts in real time.

Why do they still make straight CPAP machines? I think that it is so because there market for these and there is no conspiracy.
If a manufacturer stopped making them, he'd simply loose the sales to the manufacturer that kept on making such. It would take all major manufacturers to agree to stop making CPAPs and that would not be legal in many countries.

For at least some manufacturers, dumb CPAPs do differ in hardware from smart ones. They may even have different blowers, motor drives and control circuits. Smart CPAPs ( I think) typically have exactly the same hardware as their APAP counterparts but, keep in mind that manufacturers have to recover not only direct costs of manufacturing but also all the engineering, software and R&D costs and I bet that they assign higher portion of these costs to APAPs than to CPAPs. Heck, for all I know, they could say that smart CPAPs are only a side effect of developing APAPs so, all of these costs must be charged to APAP account.
Everything I post on this board is nothing more than an opinion expressed by an apneak. Normally, it's based on facts and experience but sometimes, I may get things wrong or not have all the facts.
I reserve the right to change my mind. Why? Because tomorrow I may know better.
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#10
There is logic and then there is reality. I have read posts from other forums where people say CPAP is all you need and anything else is for kids.

My guess is that as CPAP machines advanced some people just said they don't want all the bells and whistles, just give me a lower cost CPAP. Then there are insurance companies that want to do the minimum required and offer only CPAP to save a buck.

As for the manufacturers, the hardware cost of the machine is fixed for all types, but the R&D cost and field trials and FDA stuff is not. That little algorithm is what they are really selling and it costs a lot to develop, prove, and certify. Accounting wise they are probably making more profit on the plain CPAP machines.
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