Post Reply 
Why CPAP and APAP machines.
Author Message
cohngr Offline

Members

Posts: 6
Joined: Feb 2016

Machine: Resmed S8
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: BMC iVolve
Humidifier: None
CPAP Pressure: 10
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Durban, South Africa

Post: #1
Why CPAP and APAP machines.
Hi All!

First post and first week on CPAP machine done! Still early stages I think and still getting used to the mask. I have decided to rent a machine before actually buying, and do a bit of my own as to what I want.

What I'd like to ask is why do they have CPAP and APAP machines? surely an automatic machine would suffice - or are there instances where you want a specific pressure? My sleep study suggested 10cm H20 and the supplier gave me a machine and set it to AUTO saying it will suffice.

Thank for a MOST informative forum. I have already learned heaps!

Grant.ThanksThanksThanks
02-24-2016 04:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
DeepBreathing Offline
Wiki Editor
Moderators

Posts: 2,296
Joined: Sep 2013

Machine: Resmed S9 VPAP Adapt
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: Resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: EPAP: 9 - 15 PS: 3 - 10
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post: #2
RE: Why CPAP and APAP machines.
G'day Grant - welcome to Apnea Board.

In the beginning there were only fixed pressure machines, no APAPs. (In fact the very first experimental unit used the blower from a vacuum cleaner)! Nowadays we have fully automatic machines with full data capabilities, but for reasons best known to themselves, the manufacturers still put out fixed pressure units and - even worse - units with no useful data capability. There are members on this and other forums who have pulled the machines apart and tell us there is no physical difference in the innards, only the software / firmware is changed. Why do the companies do this? Well, I've never been one for conspiracy theories but I'll wager somebody is making a buck somewhere along the line.

98% of the people on this forum will tell you to get an autoset machine, and give you a lot of solid reasons (not the least being that if you need a fixed pressure, the autoset can easily deliver that). One or two people have tried APAP and get better therapy and improved sleep using a fixed pressure. And it does seem that there are still some sleep doctors who don't believe in new-newfangled auto this'n'that! Smile

DeepBreathing
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Bed

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
02-24-2016 05:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
cohngr Offline

Members

Posts: 6
Joined: Feb 2016

Machine: Resmed S8
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: BMC iVolve
Humidifier: None
CPAP Pressure: 10
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Durban, South Africa

Post: #3
RE: Why CPAP and APAP machines.
Great reply - Thank you Paul!
02-24-2016 06:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
DeepBreathing Offline
Wiki Editor
Moderators

Posts: 2,296
Joined: Sep 2013

Machine: Resmed S9 VPAP Adapt
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: Resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: EPAP: 9 - 15 PS: 3 - 10
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post: #4
RE: Why CPAP and APAP machines.
By the way Grant - which model machine and mask do you have? The S8 you've listed for the mask is actually a machine model (a pretty old one). The masks tend to have names like Quattro and Mirage though the latest range have reverted to numbers (P10, N10 and F10). If you have in fact got an S8 machine I hope you got a huge discount!

DeepBreathing
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Bed

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
02-24-2016 07:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
OpalRose Offline

Monitors

Posts: 3,181
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: PR System One REMstar Auto 560 with A Flex
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: AirFit P10 For Her
Humidifier: REMStar heated humidifier with heated hose
CPAP Pressure: Auto Cpap 10-13 AFLEX 1
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Started CPAP Therapy October 23, 2014

Sex: Female
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Post: #5
RE: Why CPAP and APAP machines.
Welcome to the forum cohngr,
Definetly go for the APAP machine. You can use an APAP in auto mode or CPAP mode.

Here is a link for you to help gain some insight as to the newer machines available and some which you may want to avoid. This way, when you are ready to buy, you will be informed. Good luck.
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...ne_Choices

Also, there is a supplier list, see top of page. You can check out Supplier #2, as they sell used APAP's, and also open box, 0 hours new machines. It may or may not be cost effective to have one shipped verses buying local.

OpalRose
02-24-2016 08:16 AM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
cohngr Offline

Members

Posts: 6
Joined: Feb 2016

Machine: Resmed S8
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: BMC iVolve
Humidifier: None
CPAP Pressure: 10
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Durban, South Africa

Post: #6
RE: Why CPAP and APAP machines.
Hi again Paul

It is an S8 - but just a rental - I will go for a much more recent model when have to buy one.
The mask .... I believe is an el-cheapo Chinese thing (sold to me by an unscrupulous person before I knew much about these things!).
It does seem to do the trick though....

Thanks for the extra feedback!
Grant
Oh yes Miss Rose :-).... So many thank for that link!

Grant!
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2016 08:29 AM by cohngr.)
02-24-2016 08:28 AM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
OMyMyOHellYes Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 915
Joined: Mar 2013

Machine: Respironics 560 Auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage FX
Humidifier: Respironics System One (no heated hose)
CPAP Pressure: 08.0-15.0 cm/H2O
CPAP Software: EncoreBasic

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Texas

Post: #7
RE: Why CPAP and APAP machines.
APAP machines have straight CPAP modes, so there is no conceivable reason to offer a straight CPAP. Other than marketing. I suspect many folks first get a CPAP brick foisted on them, and then want an upgrade to a data capable CPAP and finally an APAP. The evil marketers get to sell three machines rather than one that will do everything.

OMMOHY
02-24-2016 01:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
Evpraxia Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 313
Joined: Aug 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift LT for Her - Nasal Pillows System
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 7-17
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Cat Staff, bibliophile, love Classical & Byzantine music

Sex: Female
Location: Pacific Northwest USA

Post: #8
RE: Why CPAP and APAP machines.
Greetings cohngr,

Glad you are being proactive on your treatment. The medical folks do not live in your body, you do; so it is always a good idea to know what is going on.

The data is SO helpful - it really tells you and the medical staff what is going with YOU as you get used to the XPAP as time marches on.

Evpraxia in the Pacific Northwest USA
Diagnosed: 44 AHI when supine, O2 down to 82%
Treated since 20 Sept 2014:: 0.7 AHI, Settings 7-15, EPR on Full Time at Level 3
Better living through CPAP/APAP machines!
02-24-2016 01:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
GPSMapNut Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 175
Joined: Nov 2015

Machine: DreamStation Auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed AirFit P10 and PR DreamWear
Humidifier: DreamStation + heated hose
CPAP Pressure: 9-16
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncorePro Other Software

Other Comments: Used Respironics REMstar Pro with C-Flex for 11 years and ResMed S9 Elite loaner for 3 months

Sex: Male
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada

Post: #9
RE: Why CPAP and APAP machines.
Personally, I'm all for APAP because, I get good results at (mostly) much lower pressure than with CPAP.
My prescribed pressure for CPAP was 15 cmH2O. My APAP runs 90% of the time at 10.5 or lower!
IF I had a dumb CPAP with no data capability, I couldn't even evaluate the effectiveness of the treatment other than by judging how I feel in the morning.
With a data capable CPAP, I could evaluate the treatment and maybe try lower pressures. With a really smart CPAP like DreamStation Pro, I could let the machine evaluate and adjust the pressure in long term but it would still not react to events in real time. If I set lower pressure, I'd be sometimes subjected to periods of high AHI
With APAP, the machine reacts and adjusts in real time.

Why do they still make straight CPAP machines? I think that it is so because there market for these and there is no conspiracy.
If a manufacturer stopped making them, he'd simply loose the sales to the manufacturer that kept on making such. It would take all major manufacturers to agree to stop making CPAPs and that would not be legal in many countries.

For at least some manufacturers, dumb CPAPs do differ in hardware from smart ones. They may even have different blowers, motor drives and control circuits. Smart CPAPs ( I think) typically have exactly the same hardware as their APAP counterparts but, keep in mind that manufacturers have to recover not only direct costs of manufacturing but also all the engineering, software and R&D costs and I bet that they assign higher portion of these costs to APAPs than to CPAPs. Heck, for all I know, they could say that smart CPAPs are only a side effect of developing APAPs so, all of these costs must be charged to APAP account.

Everything I post on this board is nothing more than an opinion expressed by an apneak. Normally, it's based on facts and experience but sometimes, I may get things wrong or not have all the facts.
I reserve the right to change my mind. Why? Because tomorrow I may know better.
02-24-2016 01:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
PoolQ Online

Advisory Members

Posts: 986
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: AirCurve 10 VAUTO
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Amara View
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: 6.2, 15, PS4.0
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Sillicon Valley

Post: #10
RE: Why CPAP and APAP machines.
There is logic and then there is reality. I have read posts from other forums where people say CPAP is all you need and anything else is for kids.

My guess is that as CPAP machines advanced some people just said they don't want all the bells and whistles, just give me a lower cost CPAP. Then there are insurance companies that want to do the minimum required and offer only CPAP to save a buck.

As for the manufacturers, the hardware cost of the machine is fixed for all types, but the R&D cost and field trials and FDA stuff is not. That little algorithm is what they are really selling and it costs a lot to develop, prove, and certify. Accounting wise they are probably making more profit on the plain CPAP machines.
02-24-2016 02:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Newbie so confused between 2 machines Matzaball2016 4 187 12-07-2016 12:56 AM
Last Post: chill
  Medicare Advantage Coverage for APAP Evie 4 248 12-05-2016 09:49 PM
Last Post: Evie
  Switching Machines owlgirl63 4 249 12-04-2016 05:11 AM
Last Post: kwhenrykerr
  cpap and apap not effictive Ezil71 109 3,153 11-05-2016 11:19 AM
Last Post: sonicboom
Question CHANGING MACHINES - SD CARD srlevine1 3 241 10-31-2016 07:11 PM
Last Post: srlevine1
  Unable to clear throat while on APAP NorthernGuy 5 315 10-17-2016 08:18 PM
Last Post: Sleeprider
  Apap I_will_never_sleep_again 2 296 10-14-2016 02:58 PM
Last Post: trish6hundred

Forum Jump:

Who's Online (Complete List)