Hello Guest, Welcome to Apnea Board !
As a guest, you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.
To post a message, you must create a free account using a valid email address.

or Create an Account


New Posts   Today's Posts

Why High AHI using DreamStation vs AirSense 10??
#1
Why High AHI using DreamStation vs AirSense 10??
I’d like to get some guidance on a few things.  I have two machines right now, AirSense 10 autoset and DreamStation auto.  I have to give one back soon.  The ResMed always gives very low AHI scores but makes some noise on exhale that I find distracting.  I think its normal for the machine.  
  • The DreamStation AHI scores seem to range from 4 to 14 and the DreamStation average pressures are normally lower than the AirSense pressures.  Don’t know if lower DreamStation pressures explain the higher scores or not?
  • Last night I used the DreamStation for the first time in 5 days and got AHI of 14.  If I use it for a few days in a row it seems to get lower, not sure if this makes sense or if it's just coincidence.  Even though the score is not good, I don’t feel a noticeable difference in the morning depending upon the machine I used.  
  • Why are the AHI numbers so much higher with the DreamStation?  Does this mean it’s not as good for me or does it have to do with how the two companies define events? 
You can find some DreamStation data here:
https://imgur.com/a/LysSZ
The top graph is the whole night followed by blow-ups of specific parts.  Note the fast breathing rate at some times. 
You can find data from the AirSense 10 in my prior thread Here in posts 1,4,9,10:
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...ing-apneas 
and also at these links:
https://imgur.com/a/j72rZ
https://imgur.com/a/52Upo  

All help and guidance is appreciated.  Thanks!
Post Reply Post Reply






Donate to Apnea Board  
#2
RE: Why High AHI using DreamStation vs AirSense 10??
I too find that I get higher AHI with my Dreamstation than with my Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset. I have not yet figured out whether it's a difference in how AHI is measured vs how effective the treatment is.

One clue is that I seem to get more "events" scored while awake wearing the Dreamstation than I do with the Resmed. Thus I think the Dreamstation probably has more false positives. But that is a very preliminary observation because I've only used the Resmed for a few days now.
Post Reply Post Reply
#3
RE: Why High AHI using DreamStation vs AirSense 10??
The resmed machine responds to apnea more aggressively than the dream station. You are running a low initial treatment pressure that does not treat you apnea the resmed gets to an effective pressure quicker than the dream station if your initial pressure was closer within 2cm of your 90% treatment pressure both machines would be as effective. An initial pressure of 8 or 9 would give lower ahi’s

Jason
Post Reply Post Reply
#4
RE: Why High AHI using DreamStation vs AirSense 10??
Thanks for these two responses. Both make good sense.
The data shows that there are a lot of apneas during the ramp time when pressures are below therapeutic and after the minimum auto pressure is reached but while the DreamStation is (too) slowly responding to apneas. I may need decrease the ramp time or increase the ramp start pressure and increase the minimum pressure probably to at least 12. That should probably help at least as a start as long as its still comfortable to fall asleep.
Post Reply Post Reply






Donate to Apnea Board  
#5
RE: Why High AHI using DreamStation vs AirSense 10??
Fixit50,
Does the Dreamstation record events during the ramp time? I know that the Resmed S9 doesn't record events during the ramp period. I am guessing the A10 may do the same.
Crimson Nape
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com
___________________________________
Useful Links -or- When All Else Fails:
The Guide to Understanding OSCAR
OSCAR Chart Organization
Attaching Images and Files on Apnea Board
Apnea Helpful Tips

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
Post Reply Post Reply
#6
RE: Why High AHI using DreamStation vs AirSense 10??
Yes, I found recently that the A10 does not log events until the ramp has completed. The DreamStation ramp is quite different however to the ResMed ramps in its function. All it does is stay in auto titration mode but with a different minimum pressure until the ramp time has run out or the minimum auto pressure is reached, whatever comes first. That’s different that ResMed’s ramp and yes, the DreamStation does log events during the ramp. This contributes to the appearance of a higher AHI for the DreamStation because during its ramp period (I have it set to 20 mins) therapeutic pressures have not yet been reached. In my case the ResMed’s ramp runs out quickly so I don’t often have many apneas during ramp but it does happen.
Also, besides the reasons stated thus far to explain the higher AHIs with the DreamStation, I have also seen events logged in the DreamStation that are less than 10 seconds long! I don’t understand that since I thought those were not supposed to qualify as events. Maybe the DreamStation applies a different definition of Event??
There’s a lot to learn if you want to get a good night’s sleep!
Post Reply Post Reply
#7
RE: Why High AHI using DreamStation vs AirSense 10??
This issues has been danced around since I joined the site. Is it too impolite to say that the DS has a dumb algorithm? Or is it a case where you shouldn't make fun of the algorithmically challenged and keep saying the DS is a bit slow to respond (is this PC now days?) and needs a pressure closer to the 95%. AKA near enough to fixed cpap. Not that fixed is bad, I think it's underrated.
mask fit http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...ask_Primer
For auto-cpap, from machine data or software. You can set the min pressure 1 or 2cm below 95%. Or clinicians commonly use the maximum or 95% pressure for fixed pressure CPAP, this can also be used for min pressure.
https://aasm.org/resources/practiceparam...rating.pdf
Post Reply Post Reply






Donate to Apnea Board  
#8
RE: Why High AHI using DreamStation vs AirSense 10??
ajack,

             I'm shocked by your unbiased statement!

Vomit
Download SleepyHead
Organize your Sleepyhead Charts
Posting Charts
Beginner's Guide to SleepyHead
Mask Primer
5
Advisory Members serve as an "Advisory Committee" to help shape Apnea Board's rules & policies.

Membership in the Advisory Members group does not imply medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.



Post Reply Post Reply
#9
RE: Why High AHI using DreamStation vs AirSense 10??
I suppose it would have helped if I put [/sarcastic] in there somewhere. You'll be even more shocked when I tell you that I run my ASV epap 1 cm under my 95% (the same as I'm bagging the DS for)..I'll put some charts up to show I'm not BS'ing.

For a new user, the philips apap isn't as plug and play as the resmed, it doesn't make it a bad machine, but it needs someone who knows how to fine tune it, this counts out most DME and doctors who set 4-20, or the ones that are a bit better and set 6-20

here's one from October, my min epap:9 and 95%:9.38
https://i.imgur.com/rP44rTk.png
mask fit http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...ask_Primer
For auto-cpap, from machine data or software. You can set the min pressure 1 or 2cm below 95%. Or clinicians commonly use the maximum or 95% pressure for fixed pressure CPAP, this can also be used for min pressure.
https://aasm.org/resources/practiceparam...rating.pdf
Post Reply Post Reply
#10
RE: Why High AHI using DreamStation vs AirSense 10??
ajack,
Do you have a recommendation for setting the min and max pressures for my DreamStation auto? I was thinking min of 12 maybe 13 and max of 20 (though it probably wont get there). The idea of the higher minimum in my view is to allow the algorithm to increase to a needed pressure faster since it will have less change needed to obtain the needed pressure with the higher minimum. The trade is when the higher minimum is not needed, it will hang out there possibly causing comfort issues. Am I looking at this correctly? I'm not certain I understand the theory of fine tuning the DreamStation or the importance of setting the minimum a specified distance from the 95% pressure.
With the AirSense auto, 10 to 20 gave very low AHI.
Post Reply Post Reply






Donate to Apnea Board  


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Wait for ResMed AirSense 11? Or buy AirSense 10 now? dk2011 17 1,879 2 hours ago
Last Post: jprestonian
  DreamStation to AirSense Migration -- Dialing in the Right Settings bollar 16 446 07-21-2021, 09:06 AM
Last Post: Crimson Nape
  Help transitioning from Dreamstation to Airsense 10 Auo-set PillowTalk 12 318 07-18-2021, 07:54 PM
Last Post: OpalRose
  [Equipment] Airsense 10 Different AHI Experience from Dreamstation drobinson02199 9 300 07-06-2021, 10:30 AM
Last Post: drobinson02199
  Bad breathing pattern and high respiration rate elliotg 19 388 07-06-2021, 01:02 AM
Last Post: Geer1
  [CPAP] 0 OSA, High Central Apneas moogcity3 4 220 06-28-2021, 04:06 PM
Last Post: SarcasticDave94
  Dreamstation or RESMED AirSense 10 AutoSet nickanti 5 309 06-20-2021, 02:46 PM
Last Post: SleepingTight


New Posts   Today's Posts






About Apnea Board

Apnea Board is an educational web site designed to empower Sleep Apnea patients.