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Why are hypopneas 10 seconds long?
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rkl122 Offline

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Post: #21
RE: Why are hypopneas 10 seconds long?
(08-01-2016 08:06 AM)green wings Wrote:  Yes, events that each get counted the same may be very different in severity. ................
This observation has concerned me from the start of my therapy. As indicated by this thread, a person with apneas of 30 second average duration ought to be at higher risk than one with those of 15 seconds average duration, even if both persons have the same AHI<5. Yet the "definition" takes no account of duration beyond the 10 second minimum. Bear in mind that these machines are (in the US) FDA approved. Therefore, I gotta believe that their algorithms are incorporated in that approval. OTOH, any algorithmic overlay by the SH programmers is, far as I can tell, not subject to FDA review. If so, I'd have thought the programmers would take great pains to indicate where the data presentation exceeds the bounds of the legal standard.

Good thread. -Ron

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08-01-2016 11:02 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #22
RE: Why are hypopneas 10 seconds long?
(08-01-2016 11:02 AM)rkl122 Wrote:  This observation has concerned me from the start of my therapy. As indicated by this thread, a person with apneas of 30 second average duration ought to be at higher risk than one with those of 15 seconds average duration, even if both persons have the same AHI<5. Yet the "definition" takes no account of duration beyond the 10 second minimum. Bear in mind that these machines are (in the US) FDA approved. Therefore, I gotta believe that their algorithms are incorporated in that approval. OTOH, any algorithmic overlay by the SH programmers is, far as I can tell, not subject to FDA review. If so, I'd have thought the programmers would take great pains to indicate where the data presentation exceeds the bounds of the legal standard.

Good thread. -Ron

That's why distilling efficiency to a single number (the AHI) does not give the full picture.

As for Sleepyhead: There are legal disclaimers as to its suitability for diagnostic use. OTOH: Sleepyhead is the only multi-OS, multilingual, multi-PAP manufacturer software available. And one cannot beat the price.

JediMark and his team of Jedi knights have done a marvelous job in its development.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-01-2016 01:08 PM
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PoolQ Offline

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Post: #23
RE: Why are hypopneas 10 seconds long?
As far as 10 seconds being less of a problem than 50 seconds, while perhaps true, IMHO makes no difference in most situations. The treatment will be initiated until AHI is below 5. Now if someone is at 5 AHI and all of their apneas are 120 seconds each then I would assume that O2 levels would be checked and action taken based on the remaining lowered O2 levels.

Again of course with the given questionable focus by some sleep Doctors, being able to actually see how long an apnea is, with support from this forum at least I think I can safely assume that someone would suggest a recording O2 meter and further follow-up with the medical staff for anyone that even with treatment still has low O2 levels
08-01-2016 01:46 PM
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rkl122 Offline

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Post: #24
RE: Why are hypopneas 10 seconds long?
(08-01-2016 01:08 PM)justMongo Wrote:  ................

JediMark and his team of Jedi knights have done a marvelous job in its development.
Agreed 100%. I find SH fascinating and helpful, and use it every day. (Have made a donation also.) I certainly don't mean to disparage the overall accomplishment. I just wish it was very clear if, where, and how the software is tweaking the event data delivered by the machine - as opposed to leaving it up to users to discover anomalies such as the one outlined in this thread.

I anticipate the next SH upgrade with bated breath - that's 'bated' as in 'breathing under pressure'. Smile

-Ron

We are such stuff
As dreams are made on, and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2016 05:52 PM by rkl122.)
08-01-2016 04:25 PM
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0rangebear Offline

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Post: #25
RE: Why are hypopneas 10 seconds long?
Let me see if I can explain why I think the post would help.
When I first started therapy. I saw the same thing on mine. Almost all Hypo and all 10 seconds.

Overtime I have taken a deeper look into the data and have continued to learn from the folks here in the forum that are a lot smarter than I.

For an example; I have attached a copy of my raw data set from sleepyhead for the month of July that shows all my events for the month. Notice how many of the events are 10 seconds. The events below 10 don't post in the sleepy head daily view so you won't see them unless export the raw data. It is possible that you are not having any significant numbers of events above 10; and you would have to watch the data very closely to find them.


(07-31-2016 07:42 PM)Rcgop Wrote:  No need to post. Every hypopnea ever registered since the beginning is exactly 10seconds. No more, no less.
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2016 05:31 PM by 0rangebear.)
08-01-2016 05:31 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Why are hypopneas 10 seconds long?
(08-01-2016 01:46 PM)PoolQ Wrote:  As far as 10 seconds being less of a problem than 50 seconds, while perhaps true, IMHO makes no difference in most situations. The treatment will be initiated until AHI is below 5. Now if someone is at 5 AHI and all of their apneas are 120 seconds each then I would assume that O2 levels would be checked and action taken based on the remaining lowered O2 levels.

Again of course with the given questionable focus by some sleep Doctors, being able to actually see how long an apnea is, with support from this forum at least I think I can safely assume that someone would suggest a recording O2 meter and further follow-up with the medical staff for anyone that even with treatment still has low O2 levels

I thought that we were discussing Hypopneas.
08-01-2016 06:18 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Why are hypopneas 10 seconds long?
My SleepyHead v0.9.8-1 (testing) with my Resmed S9 VPAP Auto records hypopnea duration times in the events table. My ResScan (older version) does not record any hypopnea time durations from my Resmed S9 VPAP Auto
08-01-2016 06:24 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Why are hypopneas 10 seconds long?
(08-01-2016 11:02 AM)rkl122 Wrote:  Yet the "definition" takes no account of duration beyond the 10 second minimum. Bear in mind that these machines are (in the US) FDA approved. Therefore, I gotta believe that their algorithms are incorporated in that approval.

I think, but don't for sure. that the data recorded on the SD card is simply interpreted by SleepyHead. This is a bug in SleepyHead. Nothing more.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-01-2016 07:21 PM
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0rangebear Offline

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Post: #29
RE: Why are hypopneas 10 seconds long?
My ResMed AirSence 10 records event time for everything except RERA. See my raw data attached to earlier post. Event time is posted for 62 hypopnea's


(08-01-2016 06:24 PM)PaytonA Wrote:  My SleepyHead v0.9.8-1 (testing) with my Resmed S9 VPAP Auto records hypopnea duration times in the events table. My ResScan (older version) does not record any hypopnea time durations from my Resmed S9 VPAP Auto
08-01-2016 07:23 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Why are hypopneas 10 seconds long?
(08-01-2016 07:21 PM)Sleepster Wrote:  
(08-01-2016 11:02 AM)rkl122 Wrote:  Yet the "definition" takes no account of duration beyond the 10 second minimum. Bear in mind that these machines are (in the US) FDA approved. Therefore, I gotta believe that their algorithms are incorporated in that approval.

I think, but don't for sure. that the data recorded on the SD card is simply interpreted by SleepyHead. This is a bug in SleepyHead. Nothing more.

How is it a bug in SleepyHead when SleepyHead is recording the hypopnea durations????

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PaytonA
08-02-2016 04:57 PM
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