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Why is pressure changing by 1.5 cm H2O? - Asking because my spinal joints hurt
#1
I am wondering if the 1.5 cm sawtooth-shaped changes in pressure that I see on this graph are normal behavior for a PR System One CPAP machine in auto trial mode.

I am having problems tolerating PAP therapy at all due to spinal joint pain.

I just want to be sure that the machine is acting normally. After just one night of auto trial, my spinal joints feel like someone wrung me out like a dishrag. Thumbs-down-1

The min and max pressures are set at 9.0 and 10.5 cm.

I did an auto trial in March but stopped after 5 nights because of spinal and ribcage pain.


Thanks.

[Image: BfLv3Zb.png]


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#2
The sawtooth pattern is normal for the system one APAP's. It will go up approximately 1.5cm and back down. Are you trying ATrial to find a better pressure? The range of 9 to 10.5 isn't wide enough for the machine to determine a better pressure. Try 9-12, it's won't go higher than needed.

If you don't feel you can tolerate the changing pressures, then go back to using Cpap, but raise your minimum pressure by .5 every couple days until you see the results you want. You may only need to be at 10.5 or 11 to tackle those Obstructives.
OpalRose
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#3
Thanks for the input, OR.

I knew the system ones did small "experimental" pressure changes, but I wasn't aware that those changes were 1.5 cm. That seems like a large experiment to me. Oh-jeez

I'm not sure exactly what I was trying to do. Grin

No, I suppose I do know. Based on the 5-day trial I did in March, my upper pressure limit needs to be around 14 or 15. A very helpful poster looked at my graphs then...oh, that was you! Thanks

I believe the idea I had yesterday was that I'd put the machine in auto mode and then gradually increase the upper pressure limit and see if my body tolerated that better than letting the pressure go from, say, 9.0-15.0 all at once.

I'm not sure that actually makes any sense, though.

Do you know if people typically use straight CPAP pressure at pressures as high as 14? I don't need that much pressure, really, except for the middle-of-the-night period where I get lots more apneic events.

I wish I could adjust that algorithm. Coffee

I have had about 3 days total where I woke up feeling well since I started CPAP therapy, so I'm wanting to adjust the settings, but it seems like my spine isn't tolerating that very well.

Graph below is from 2nd day of 5-day auto trial in March. I woke up feeling great that day aside from some torso pain, but by day 5, I was walking around stooped over and stopped the trial and went back to CPAP at 8.0 cm.

[Image: tApbpoz.png]



(04-10-2016, 09:45 AM)OpalRose Wrote: The sawtooth pattern is normal for the system one APAP's. It will go up approximately 1.5cm and back down. Are you trying ATrial to find a better pressure? The range of 9 to 10.5 isn't wide enough for the machine to determine a better pressure. Try 9-12, it's won't go higher than needed.
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#4
What version of SleepyHead are you using? I see the pressure listing on the left, under the big AHI, is displaying a Min of 9 and a Max of 0.
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#5
Just read your edited post. I think I'm going to do that. Go back to CPAP mode & gradually increase the pressure.

Part of me wonders if I'm imagining that the pressure moving from 9.0-10.5 cm makes my spine hurt more than a straight 10.0 cm of pressure, but it seems like my impression is all I have to go on.

(04-10-2016, 09:45 AM)OpalRose Wrote: If you don't feel you can tolerate the changing pressures, then go back to using Cpap, but raise your minimum pressure by .5 every couple days until you see the results you want. You may only need to be at 10.5 or 11 to tackle those Obstructives.

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#6
I'm using version 9.8.1 ("BrokenGL") because I have an old laptop that runs Windows XP.

I noticed that there are some zeroes in places that I know aren't really zero. I'm not sure if that's because I'm using a CPAP machine running in auto trial mode (I'd think that would be the same as using a PR APAP, but don't know for sure.)

I've mostly been using the machine in straight CPAP mode and most all the values I need to see seem to show up in SH when I run it that way.

A newer computer is on the "To Buy" list - it just isn't near the top. The one I have won't even run Windows 7.

(04-10-2016, 10:46 AM)Crimson Nape Wrote: What version of SleepyHead are you using? I see the pressure listing on the left, under the big AHI, is displaying a Min of 9 and a Max of 0.

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#7
(04-10-2016, 10:46 AM)Crimson Nape Wrote: What version of SleepyHead are you using? I see the pressure listing on the left, under the big AHI, is displaying a Min of 9 and a Max of 0.


The system one machines for some reason (maybe a bug) don't display the correct pressure range while using ATrial.
OpalRose
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.




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#8
(04-10-2016, 11:34 AM)OpalRose Wrote: The system one machines for some reason (maybe a bug) don't display the correct pressure range while using ATrial.

that is absolutely a bug...
submitted https://bugs.jedimark.net/view.php?id=12
هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
Tongue Suck Technique for prevention of mouth breathing:
  • Place your tongue behind your front teeth on the roof of your mouth
  • let your tongue fill the space between the upper molars
  • gently suck to form a light vacuum
Practising during the day can help you to keep it at night

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
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#9
green wings,
Yes, it looks like you need a higher pressure, but when using a fixed pressure Cpap, you are limited in what you can do. You either have to put the pressure up to 14 or 15 if that's what it takes, or you need to look into acquiring an APAP, where you won't be at that high pressure all night.

So, if you are keeping the Cpap, then just up the pressure a little at a time. Only go as high as you can tolerate and still get decent therapy.

I don't think there's any connection with your spine hurting and using ATrial. But hey, I'm no doctor. Dont-know

Maybe you should get that checked out.
Good luck! Hope you can get your pressure at a good place without causing you more problems.
OpalRose
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.




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#10
(04-10-2016, 11:37 AM)DariaVader Wrote:
(04-10-2016, 11:34 AM)OpalRose Wrote: The system one machines for some reason (maybe a bug) don't display the correct pressure range while using ATrial.

that is absolutely a bug...

Thanks Daria,
I notice that on my stats, SH will list me as using ramp, which I don't use, also says my humidifier is disconnected, which it's not.
But it said the same on the prior version of SH too.
OpalRose
Apnea Board Moderator
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How to Organize and Post ScreenShots

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.




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