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Z1 muffler - help, please
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DocWils Offline

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Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: same as machine
CPAP Pressure: 5-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #11
RE: Z1 muffler - help, please
Well, I sent in my report, with a thumbs down to the LL taking it into their roster of devices, at least until the importer brings the price down (he wants 2K for it!!!!) and stops substituting the standard kit with non-standard parts (a GE hospital moisture filter, for instance, instead of the HEF filter from HDM), no way of addressing the noise problem, including no Q-Tube, and no way for non-iPhone users to access data. I very much called HDM on their claim of 26 dB. Nice trick, that, but I figured out how they got it, and it ain't honest.

Thank you for all your help - all the feedback given here was passed on to the appropriate decision makers, and I am very glad that you could be part of this decision making process.

I also passed on redesign suggestions that will filter their way back to HDM, in the slight hope they will read it and actually do something about it.
09-14-2015 03:29 PM
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MobileBasset Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 198
Joined: May 2015

Machine: ResMed AIRCURVE 10 V Auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher Paykel Zest
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: 10 (minE 6,maxI 12, PS 3)
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments:

Sex: Female
Location: Florida

Post: #12
RE: Z1 muffler - help, please
I was hoping that would be your decision. While reading your observations and the replies I just kept thinking how disappointed I would be if my doctor recommended that machine to me.

if you can't decide then you don't have enough data.
09-14-2015 07:26 PM
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OMyMyOHellYes Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 915
Joined: Mar 2013

Machine: Respironics 560 Auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage FX
Humidifier: Respironics System One (no heated hose)
CPAP Pressure: 08.0-15.0 cm/H2O
CPAP Software: EncoreBasic

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Texas

Post: #13
RE: Z1 muffler - help, please
How tightly controlled is the non-channel import controlled there? ie - if somebody ordered a Z-1 from supplier 867 on the list, would it make it into the country?

And what of the German machines? Like the Weinmann units?

OMMOHY
09-14-2015 08:07 PM
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DocWils Offline

Members-b

Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: same as machine
CPAP Pressure: 5-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #14
RE: Z1 muffler - help, please
MB,
The thing is, the concept is good, indeed in some ways pretty great, but sometimes you have to sacrifice concept (and money) to get it right, and if that means a from the ground up redesign instead of add-ons to address the problems, sure you save some money, but you also ignore the real problem and it will come back and bite you in the bum someday. So, the original Z1 had the many of the same problems of the Z1 auto, users on forums and customers complained about it, but instead of making the Z1 Auto a redesigned machine to address the problems, they simply used the same shell, coloured it a bit, and added the auto titrating algorithm.

What they should have done was make the shell a titch larger, made the intake and outlet standard sized, allowing for a fan and compressor that would be running at lower revs and allowing for some vibration dampening, and then release it, perhaps with an Android and M$ app for it. Then it would have been a killer machine, and maybe at most 10-20% heavier, which would still make it the smallest, lightest and now quietest machine on the market. Perhaps the Z2 will address these issues within the design process.

You see, it is easy to get 26 dB when you put the mike two metres from the device and let it run without actually breathing with it. Heck, I managed that at one metre (but not closer). But once you breath, the pressure of the EPR system on the motor, the vibration passed up the tube and a host of other things push the noise level up. Moreover, real life use is different from standardised testing. You are at most a few cm from the tube, the nose joint of the mask is right under your eyes, and the machine is around 70 cm away most often, and rarely more than 100 cm from you, which is also the maximum distance your bed partner is from your mask. So you have to measure sound from all those distances and areas of noise, while in use, or you can't get a true picture of the noise value and pressure. I think HDM fudged on this. Certainly my experience and the reports of others on this site and elsewhere would confirm this.

So my challenge to HDM is come up with a machine nearly as small and light as the Z1, as quiet as the PRS in real use (very quiet) and you will have not just me as a customer, but everyone I meet - I will sing the glories of you. Unless you insist to remain an Apple only system - then you and I have a religious issue that will not be assuaged easily. I don't have a smart phone, and if I did, it would not be iOS. I want to track my data on my PC, I might settle for tracking it on a tablet, android if need be, M$ even better (love my VAIO tablet) and you will have a fan for life. Keep the form factor, adjust for the extra size and needs I mentioned, and maybe make the display also data capable, and you will have a winner. As it is, you lost, at least in my country. Oh, and have a look at your Swiss distributor - I would call that profiteering....... nothing justifies a mark up that large.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2015 07:19 AM by DocWils.)
09-14-2015 08:12 PM
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DocWils Offline

Members-b

Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: same as machine
CPAP Pressure: 5-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #15
RE: Z1 muffler - help, please
OMMOHY,

The problem with import is rather complex and would take an hour to explain and you would be confused - our parliament can't seem to untangle all the vested interests on both sides of the border, so you really don't want to explore that spaghetti. Weinmann devices also are marked up, around 125% last I recall, but you see, in Switzerland we pay 130% more for the same vitamins that you can buy in Germany, even though they are produced in Switzerland and exported. You can buy them in Canada even cheaper than in Germany, even with the cost of shipping to Canada from Switzerland and import tariffs, so you you see why we call this country a High Price Island (direct translation) and why so many of us go over the border to shop...... *sigh* And now you understand why i call Switzerland Ferengi Prime (look it up if you don't know what a Ferengi is)
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2015 08:18 PM by DocWils.)
09-14-2015 08:16 PM
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DariaVader Offline
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Monitors

Posts: 1,820
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Airfit P10 for Her
Humidifier: H5i humidifier with ClimateLine heated hose
CPAP Pressure: 8-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: diabetes II, Thyroidectomized, Primary Immune Deficiency, and the list goes on :P

Sex: Female
Location: Oregon

Post: #16
RE: Z1 muffler - help, please
Good job DocWils! Things are better in Switzerland due to your presence there and conscientious approach to medicine!

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
Tongue Suck Technique for prevention of mouth breathing:
  • Place your tongue behind your front teeth on the roof of your mouth
  • let your tongue fill the space between the upper molars
  • gently suck to form a light vacuum
Practising during the day can help you to keep it at night

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
09-14-2015 08:28 PM
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DocWils Offline

Members-b

Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: same as machine
CPAP Pressure: 5-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #17
RE: Z1 muffler - help, please
Thanks, Daria.
09-15-2015 07:20 AM
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