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advice on switching from pillows to a FFM
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tml678 Offline

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Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed p10 nasal pillows
Humidifier: Humidair (set on 6)
CPAP Pressure: 8.2-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Sydney

Post: #1
advice on switching from pillows to a FFM
Hi all,

I've been on therapy for around a year, and have used airfit P10 pillows the whole time. The problem is, I'm a chronic mouth-breather and no change to my pressure has assisted.

I'm at the stage where i can no longer deal with the chinstrap as I feel the heat terribly and i get so sweaty and itchy even on cooler nights, quite frankly I hate it and i'm finding my compliance waning a bit because of it.

Therefore, I'm strongly considering switching to a FFM and am wondering if anyone else has gone from pillows to a FFM and what was your experience in doing so. I'm looking at possibly a ResMed airfit F10, but am open to any suggestions. I'm a fairly active sleeper although i mainly sleep on my side. Noise and comfort are probably the two most important considerations.

Thanks so much in advance.
07-13-2016 09:31 AM
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Crimson Nape Offline

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Posts: 1,323
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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Other
Mask Make & Model: P-10 / F&P Simplus / DreamWear
Humidifier: H5i w/Climateline
CPAP Pressure: 8 - EPR 3
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: CMS-50F & 50IW

Sex: Male
Location: Georgia

Post: #2
RE: advice on switching from pillows to a FFM
tml678,
I switch between nasal pillows (P10) and a FFM (F&P Simplus) all the time. I get bored with one and go to the other. I'm a mouth breather as well and I have noticed that my AHI is lower with a FFM. Sometimes I change between pillow models. I jump between the DreamWear and P10. Each one has a different feel.

As far as suggestions for a mask brand; Due to the varied facial structure, whatever is the most comfortable for you and works. Each mask has it own characteristics.

Good luck.
-Red

Statistics prove that people who have more birthdays live longer.
07-13-2016 09:52 AM
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tml678 Offline

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Posts: 21
Joined: Aug 2015

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed p10 nasal pillows
Humidifier: Humidair (set on 6)
CPAP Pressure: 8.2-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Sydney

Post: #3
RE: advice on switching from pillows to a FFM
(07-13-2016 09:52 AM)Crimson Nape Wrote:  tml678,
I switch between nasal pillows (P10) and a FFM (F&P Simplus) all the time. I get bored with one and go to the other. I'm a mouth breather as well and I have noticed that my AHI is lower with a FFM. Sometimes I change between pillow models. I jump between the DreamWear and P10. Each one has a different feel.

As far as suggestions for a mask brand; Due to the varied facial structure, whatever is the most comfortable for you and works. Each mask has it own characteristics.

Good luck.
-Red

Thanks for the speedy reply Red! I wish there was a way of trialing different masks without having to spend a fortune buying each one individually. My AHI is really good with the pillows (around 1.4 over the past 11mths) so obviously i'd like to maintain that.

Do you mouth-breathe when using pillows, and if not, how do you manage it?

I think i might need to go back to my sleep physician and at least see if i can try on different FFM's in his office.

I need to do something as the chinstrap is driving me crazy..
07-13-2016 10:13 AM
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green wings Offline

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Posts: 543
Joined: Feb 2016

Machine: Respironics System One RemStar Pro (460)
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: AirFit P10
Humidifier: integrated humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 13.0 cm
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: using CPAP since Jan. 2016

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: US

Post: #4
RE: advice on switching from pillows to a FFM
Hi, tml678. Do you still have leak problems with the chin strap? If not, have you tried sleeping without the chin strap to verify that you still have a mouth leaking problem?

Just a suggestion. I've seen posts on this forum where people say that after using a chin strap for a long period of time, they discover that they no longer have a problem with mouth breathing.
07-13-2016 10:29 AM
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tml678 Offline

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Posts: 21
Joined: Aug 2015

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed p10 nasal pillows
Humidifier: Humidair (set on 6)
CPAP Pressure: 8.2-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Sydney

Post: #5
RE: advice on switching from pillows to a FFM
(07-13-2016 10:29 AM)green wings Wrote:  Hi, tml678. Do you still have leak problems with the chin strap? If not, have you tried sleeping without the chin strap to verify that you still have a mouth leaking problem?

Just a suggestion. I've seen posts on this forum where people say that after using a chin strap for a long period of time, they discover that they no longer have a problem with mouth breathing.

Hi greenwings,

Admittedly I haven't used sleepyhead in a while, but I always get a smiley face for leakage with the strap on, and my mouth isn't dry at all so i know it's working fairly well.

I have tried without the strap a few times over the last months and i'll nearly always get an elbow from my wife or i'll wake up with air pouring out of my mouth and the inevitable red face on the machine in the morning.

i've tried varying pressures, doing the tongue-suck method, (which works while i'm awake, but my mouth inevitably drops open after falling asleep).

I don't know what other options are available to me other than a FFM :/
07-13-2016 10:59 AM
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green wings Offline

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Posts: 543
Joined: Feb 2016

Machine: Respironics System One RemStar Pro (460)
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: AirFit P10
Humidifier: integrated humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 13.0 cm
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: using CPAP since Jan. 2016

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: US

Post: #6
RE: advice on switching from pillows to a FFM
Sounds like you know that you still have a leak problem without the chin strap. I just thought I'd ask.

(07-13-2016 10:59 AM)tml678 Wrote:  I have tried without the strap a few times over the last months and i'll nearly always get an elbow from my wife or i'll wake up with air pouring out of my mouth and the inevitable red face on the machine in the morning.
07-13-2016 11:05 AM
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Crimson Nape Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Other
Mask Make & Model: P-10 / F&P Simplus / DreamWear
Humidifier: H5i w/Climateline
CPAP Pressure: 8 - EPR 3
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: CMS-50F & 50IW

Sex: Male
Location: Georgia

Post: #7
RE: advice on switching from pillows to a FFM
tml678,
I use a Ruby chinstrap. I've found it's the only one that will work for me. Each chinstrap in the marketplace seems to fit differently, kind of like masks. I never liked wearing anything on my head, including hats. Because of this, it took me a while to get used to masks and chinstraps. I still don't like the feeling but I can now sleep with them.

I sometimes use paper first-aid adhesive tape but not on any regular basis.

I still mouth breathe when I use the FFM but the air is captured and doesn't cause a leak event in the data. My mouth breathing seems to start at a certain pressure and, as the pressure rises, becomes more frequent. My mouth breathing is more frequent when I set my machine to auto, as opposed to straight pressure. I see that you are running a variable pressure. If your mouth breathing awakens you, you might cycling the CPAP on and off so it will show a break in the data when reviewing it. This way you will see the pressure that was in use at the time of the event.

Sorry for not having any more words of wisdom.

Statistics prove that people who have more birthdays live longer.
07-13-2016 11:52 AM
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Sleepster Offline
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Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: HumidAir and SlimLine Hose
CPAP Pressure: MaxI 13.6 | MinE 5.2 | PS 4.4
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

Sex: Male
Location: Houston, Texas

Post: #8
RE: advice on switching from pillows to a FFM
(07-13-2016 10:59 AM)tml678 Wrote:  Admittedly I haven't used sleepyhead in a while, but I always get a smiley face for leakage with the strap on, and my mouth isn't dry at all so i know it's working fairly well.

You have to look closely at your leak rate graph. If you see extended chunks of time where the leak rate is elevated, that's an indication that you could be mouth-leaking. In my case it happened for amounts of time that were too small to register the sad face, but large enough that it was ruining my night's sleep.

This is what caused me to change from nasal pillows to a full face mask. Once I did that I started feeling much more rested during the day.

You should be able to make an appointment with your equipment provider to be fitted for a mask.

By the way, mouth-leaking is not the same as mouth-breathing. Mouth-breathing is caused by a stuffy nose and can occur with or without a CPAP machine, mouth-leaking is caused by the jaw-closing muscles relaxing and allowing the air pressurized by the CPAP machine to escape.

Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
07-13-2016 12:17 PM
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tml678 Offline

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Posts: 21
Joined: Aug 2015

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed p10 nasal pillows
Humidifier: Humidair (set on 6)
CPAP Pressure: 8.2-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Sydney

Post: #9
RE: advice on switching from pillows to a FFM
Thankyou everyone for your wonderful assistance. i'm going to make an appointment with my sleep physician to hopefully try out some FFM's.

I think sleepster hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that mouth breathing is not the same as mouth leaking and i think that it is the latter that applies to me, in that i can't keep my mouth shut when sleeping (or awake too if you believe my wife..).

I'm hoping that the FFM helps with this issue.

thankyou again Smile
07-14-2016 05:16 AM
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PaytonA Online
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
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CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Post: #10
RE: advice on switching from pillows to a FFM
It is important when getting a FFM that you get the right size for you.

Of the conventional FFMs, I think that the Resmed Mirage Quattro and the F and P Simplus masks are the most adaptable to various facial features and both are good masks.

Full face masks require some work and patience to get them leak free but I love mine. Would I like to have something a little smaller attached to my face? Sure I would but so far the 2 masks mentioned above work for me and I have not found anything else that does.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
07-14-2016 12:31 PM
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