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apnea or depression.. or both?
apnea or depression.. or both?
[parts of this thread were copied from our old forum]

Quote:damnidunno wrote:
Apr 30 2006, 06:13 PM Post #1

as a baby i would always stop breathing and be taken to the ER and they never found out why i would stop breathing all the time. im 22 so that was maybe in 1984 1985
I've snored all my life. As a child i would always have headaches and not be able to sleep much at night but i'd sleep fine in school hehe. there were times when i was little and i would wake up at night with my heart beating really fast and everything going fast and i wouldnt know what was going on. But after a while of being woke up i'd calm down and be fine. I never knew what caused that. BUt i wasnt having scary dreams or anything.
for the last few years i've been a bit more weird as in my health. my eyes would get dry and my mouth would always be dry and i'd be more sleepy than usual. Is tarted going to the doctor becausei was 18 and still had medical insurece at the time and they did tons of tests and took blood and found nothing. but soon after i developed bad brain fog. at first ithought it was just memory problems but i soon realized it was overall thinking problems. When i first realized my bad memory and htinking problems (brain fog) i had a bad head ache that lasted probably 2 weeks. I went to the ER then because I was freaking out and thought i had a brain tumor and they did a catscan and said i was fine. so i lived with the brain fog for a year or so . that was in august 2004. last month I had a bad cold and for some reason I've gotten so tired and i couldnt stay awake and slept for probably 4 days straight with a little bit of waking up for a couple of hours here and there. But I got depressed sleeping all the time and the anxiety of what was wrong with me got even worse. The brain fog was worse which did get me depressed and its still worse.

its to the point where i cant remember or think clearly at all. Time seems to go by so fast due to this and which freaks me otu again. i was able ot make an appointment at a local lowcost/free clinic and they did blood tests for almost everything and everything was fine.

I should also mention that in the last years since my health got bad i've been gaining weight which is weird. Also my sex drive went down far.

The doctor did say my sinuses seemed swollen, but i never ever use my nose really. One of my nostrils is almost all the way blocked so i never get enough air from my nose alone.
I've always been a heavy breather also.

So the doctor said since there is nothign wrong with my blood, it must be depression.
the problem with that is that I wasnt depressed until things got so badly. So i dont think its depression alone. also i never heard of depression causing such brain fog.

but sometimes i wonder because even though i've always been tired, the brain fog was bad even when i wasnt that tired. but it makes me wonder now since im so tired now and the brain fog is worse. i dont know.

In the past year i have woken up at night with my chest hurting bad and my heart pounding and i thought i was dying but soon calmed down and fell back to sleep.

All my life i used to get dizzy and almost pass out sometimes while playing sports. my vision would get all sparkly for no reason and i'd get light headed and i never could explain this. which makes me wonder if i had sleep apnea back then.

I also get migraines out of no where.

I feel stupid about saying this but the only reason i ever suspected sleep apnea is because i have a friend who has had sleep apnea and he also says he is a psychic and said i had it for sure. Its a bit hard for me to believe that psychic stuff, but afte rhe told me that in 2004 i checked up the symptoms and they matched really. besides the dry mouth and eyes (when i was little the doctor told me i slept with my eyes a bit open.. or he thought idid) but lately with the anxiety I have a hard time trusting that.
I believed him for the last few years which is why i wasnt depressed. so yea i dont think this is depression.

Does this sound anything like sleep apnea? I sleep on my stomach all the time and never could sleep without my fan blowing on me hard.
People told me all my life that i snore and i used to get in trouble i nschool for snoring ha. I never know if istop breathing or gasp for air though. I try to record mysleep sleeping but its hard to get any sound with my huge fan on and i cant sleep without my fan. i've tried.

I am 22 years old.

Quote:ruggy wrote:
Apr 30 2006, 08:58 PM Post #2

Sounds like it could definitely be apnea to me.

Ever since I was diagnosed with apnea, I started being able to recognize it in other people who were not diagnosed yet. So even if your friend weren't psychic, he might truly be able to see it in you.

Some doctors might accept a videotape as objective evidence of sleep apnea if you can't afford a sleep study. You could try that first, but I strongly recommend you find some way to afford a sleep study. Pay the sleep clinic off over multiple years if you have to. What is your quality of life worth?

If it turns out you don't have apnea, then at least you've made progress toward solving whatever your condition is. The sooner you find out what you're really dealing with, the sooner you can solve it or adapt to it. Don't delay. Sleep apnea itself can be fatal.

If you've got chronic sinusitis try to get that treated too.

Best of luck,

Quote:damnidunno wrote:
May 1 2006, 02:01 AM Post #3

yeah the guy who told me.. my friend. lol i think he could be kinda psychic but lately i cant take fairy tale stuff. my head is getting way too bad to accept all that.

anyways he said he had sleep apnea. He said his mouth even got dry like mine does and has some of the rare symptoms. he told me stories.
he also has other health problems with his lungs and heart. COPD. He said his doctors thought he was crazy when he was telling them that he had sleep apnea until he had a heart attack or something. so maybe he is right??

I know that i cannot just wake up and get up anymore. I used to hate sleeping. I used to be able to stay up for ever and sleep maybe 6 or so hours. I'd always be tired but i guess if your gonna be tired anyways, sleep isnt important or worth it? I dont know what I was thinking.
But now i sleep until i basically get tired of laying there. Sometimes it can be 11 or more hours. One thing about since i've been so tired in the last month is that i wake up several times at night. Seems like every 3 hours or so. so i dunno about that.

Im actually going to try to sleep on my back. If i wake up GASPING for air, then i'll know for sure what is wrong with me. I never woke up gasping for air though. Only woke up freaking out with stuff going fast as if i was running out of air. anyways thank you for your reply.
I really hope that this is apnea because its treatable. Im loosing my mind lately and NO ONE around me believes me about anything isay which just makes it worse.
I need a girlfriend or get married so i'd have a girl there to annoy with me snoring and she could tell if i stopped breathing or not.

one thing i found out by posting on these apnea forums is that several people have had the ear problems i do. which is ringing and sound sensitivity. So i think its a symptom, maybe a rare one that does come with apnea. maybe the pressure in the sinuses all night causes it. I dont know but i know of several time si woke up with one or both of my ears ringing badly and then it'd go away after i been a wake for a while.

ruggy> how bad was your brain fog?

I'll get another job soon. I have some brain function so i should help myself while i can. At least the time going by fast would benefit me there. hehe

Something else i wonder is if my brain fog and tiredness got worse since my cold because i slept so much when i had the cold. Like 3 or more days and if I do have apnea, that'd mean it put my brain and body in more stress or somethign which coudl be why my symptoms have gotten worse? i dont know but its somethign to think about it. i really dont think its depression because I wasn't really depressed or sad before they all got worse.

thanks for your reply.

Quote:ConnCarl Wrote:
May 1 2006, 05:32 AM Post #4

Welcome to Apnea Board.

Many of the symptoms you've described are consistent with a diagnosis of obstructive sleep apnea.

If I were you I would try to arrange for a sleep study right away. If you don't have insurance and/or can't afford a sleep study, you can ask your doctor to write a scrip for a home trial of a recording autopap machine. That won't provide the wealth of data available from a formal sleep study, but it's a relatively inexpensive way of finding out if you have OSA, and whether or not CPAP can help you.

After the trial (usually two weeks), the sleep lab can download the results and forward them to your doctor for review. Based on that, he or she can write you a prescription for CPAP at the pressure necessary to keep your respiratory disturbances to a minimum.

If you do go this route, make sure to explain to your doctor that you don't breathe easily through your nose, and, for that reason, you are likely to require a full-face mask rather than the somewhat more common nasal mask.

If CPAP is helpful for you, you can always check your local lung association or OSA support groups for donated machines.

Good luck! Carl
"You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred." - Superchicken

Quote:ruggy wrote:
May 1 2006, 10:13 AM Post #5

I didn't have the brain fog until recently, and it got so overwhelming that I couldn't think at all, only feel. In my case it seemed to totally coincide with panic/anxiety/stress. It came on in spells which I'm not getting anymore. I felt like I had lost my humanity or had a lobotomy or something, and I got worried that I might be gradually turning into a human vegetable... which only made the anxiety worse. My brain temporarily became like that of a baby, complete with babylike crying etc. I think there's no way that was due to the apnea alone, though the CPAP may have encouraged hyperventilation which contributed to the anxiety which helped fuel the whole mess. I have something more than sleep apnea going on which is yet to be conclusively diagnosed. But the current theory from my neuropsychiatrist is that I have an autoimmune disorder triggered by strep which is causing ongoing neurological damage, and which may even have caused or contributed to the apnea. He says he's seen hundreds of cases similar to mine.

Actually a lot of your symptoms sound very similar to what I've been going through. Descreased sex drive, migraines, chronic sinusitis, deviated septum, nearly passing out while playing sports, tinnitis, auditory hyperacusis, doctors thinking it's all in your head.

Doctors are only beginning to recognize how widespread autoimmune problems really are. It's possible that like me, you have apnea, and then some. Treatment of apnea can result in improvements in many parts of your life. So I'd say get treated for apnea if you have it, then work through the rest of the issues if they don't resolve with better sleep.

In my case, nearly passing out during sports was likely due to just being really out of shape, cardiovascular-wise... even though I'm in pretty adequate physical shape otherwise. My lazy exercise habits have resulted in strength but no endurance.

Don't be afraid to see a knowledgeable psychiatrist, as they will often be the ones to validate your suspicion that yes there is something physically wrong with you. Again I'm seeing a neuropsychiatrist who turned out to be the first doctor with a clue about my non-apnea physiological symptoms. Think of it this way... if all your doctors are drawing a blank, wouldn't you like to have a psychiatrist draw a blank too? Just get a smart one.

I assume you know about limiting caffeine to mornings only, and getting at least some modest exercise, taking a daily multivitamin and avoiding diet soda, junk food or anything with preservatives; so here are some lesser-known tricks I've found that might really help you with sleep regulation:

Watch your melatonin cycles! In other words, get plenty of light, preferably natural daylight, during the day. In the evening, keep artificial lighting fairly dim, and have it be incandescant if possible. If you're reading a book obviously make sure you have enough light to read, but keep it soft and gentle. Evening is for relaxing. Light is how your brain knows whether it is day or night, and that is essential to the regulation of your sleep. Even staring at a computer screen can mess up your melatonin. So dim your monitor in the evening way down so that it feels gentle on your eyes.

If you ever wake up at night and have to use the bathroom, do it in the dark as much as possible. Use the dimmest nightlight that allows you to navigate and function. If you turn on the overhead light in the bathroom when you get up at night, even if it's dimmed, that can still be enough to reset your brain's melatonin cycle and then you probably won't get any more really deep sleep that night.

On another wavelength, many people (including me) are convinced that even nominal exposure to ambient electromagnetic fields (EMF) can disrupt biological processes, especially the melatonin cycle. If you minimize your exposure to EMF, especially in your bed where you sleep, that can actually make a difference. It's a controversial subject, but apparently some people are quite sensitive and the types and strengths of EMF can vary dramatically even within the same room. I got a Trifield Meter on eBay and used it to locate all the sources of EMF in my house, and I was able to fix the worst ones and avoid most of the others.

The worst was a water pipe running under my bed. A clamp-on ammeter revealed that this pipe had 2 to 4 amps on it at any given time! This is not supposed to happen but the fact is, it happens all over the country. Some neighbor with bad wiring is pumping current into the water main, and follows the pipe into your house seeking your neutral as a path back to the power company's transformer up on the pole. Other times it comes in from the grid seeking your ground. This is really insidious!

My water line current was causing an EMF density of 6-10 milligauss in my bed! To give you an idea, 2 milligauss or higher is generally believed to cause biological effects. But the actual threshold of subtle influence could be much lower. In Russia, they try to keep it below .1 milligauss and there is not anywhere in my house where the EMF is that low. I "fixed" the water line current, breaking the circuit by installing a dielectric union near the water meter, and driving a seperate earth ground near the electric service panel. That made a HUGE difference, and now my bedroom is down to only .4 milligauss. My wife and I both noticed an immediate improvement in sleep. It's a real phenomenon, I'm convinced of it.

There's an excellent book called Silencing The Fields written by Edward Leeper, a physicist with literally decades of experience in locating and reducing EMF in homes and businesses. There may be some useful web sites out there (as well as some crackpot ones), but this book is BY FAR the best resource on practical EMF reduction that I've found. Definitely worth the money. It is filled, cover-to-cover with practical information and case examples. One rarely encounters a book like that.

Best regards,

Quote:ruggy wrote:
May 1 2006, 11:04 AM Post #6

Another thought... one thing that I think really sticks out in the symptoms you're describing is the sensitivity to noise. IF what you're experiencing is auditory "hyperacusis", then this might be a key thing to bring up with your doctors, as there are not many conditions which can cause that, but one of them is Lyme Disease which can cause just about anything.

Do some googling and if you think you might have LD get evaluated for it (sometimes a very challenging task.) For the latest on Lyme, see http://www.ilads.org/files/burrascano.pdf The common ELISA test for Lyme that the most ignorant doctors still use for "screening" will often not be sufficient. IMHO that test should be banned.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, I've merely seen a lot of them and I'm getting awfully adept at surviving.)

Quote:damnidunno wrote:
May 1 2006, 07:54 PM Post #7

May 1 2006, 11:04 AM
Another thought... one thing that I think really sticks out in the symptoms you're describing is the sensitivity to noise. IF what you're experiencing is auditory "hyperacusis", then this might be a key thing to bring up with your doctors, as there are not many conditions which can cause that, but one of them is Lyme Disease which can cause just about anything.

Do some googling and if you think you might have LD get evaluated for it (sometimes a very challenging task.) For the latest on Lyme, see http://www.ilads.org/files/burrascano.pdf The common ELISA test for Lyme that the most ignorant doctors still use for "screening" will often not be sufficient. IMHO that test should be banned.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, I've merely seen a lot of them and I'm getting awfully adept at surviving.)

I dont think i have lymes disease. i think stress could be causing it. I dont know. The ears been sentive for a while. I really think that it does hav esomething to do with apnea. if that is what I have. I dont know
today i am in the biggest bad mood ever. Just being mean to everyone for nnnnnno reason. Trying to calm down though. Im just sick of dealing with this everyday and not being able to do anything about it. and not really even knowing what it is and doctors i am able to see what help at all.

Quote:damnidunno wrote:
May 2 2006, 03:06 AM Post #8

also sleep apnea cuases Hypoxia? or can.
ear problems and eye problems could be caused by Hypoxia which is caused by apnea sometimes. So never know.

Quote:jerseyguy wrote:
Jul 17 2006, 03:38 PM Post #9

Literally speaking, sleep apnea means the lack of breathing while asleep. Apnea is the loss of airflow.

While patient or individuals are sleeping the anatomy of their airway compromises itself and collapses upon itself. So despite what is called respiratory effort, that is the attempting to breath, there is a lack of airflow. So when you are asleep airflow in and out of your lungs maintain the transfer of gas placing oxygen into your blood and the blowing of carbon-dioxide that is taken out of your blood by your lungs. In order for this process to occur it requires that air passes in and out of your lungs. The tube between your lungs and the outside, also known as the trachea, is a ringed cartilaginous structure which cannot collapse. But at the top of the trachea it joins up with the esophagus and the back of the throat meets the back of the nose and the back of the mouth because a portion of this tubes is shared by the stomach and the lungs. The difference between whether or not something in your mouth goes into your stomach or whether it goes into your lungs depends on what the structure or the substance is when you swallow. So the act of swallowing causes a small flap of tissue to coverup your airway protecting it from fluids or food or other things and directs that material in your mouth down the back of your throat into your stomach. When you inhale that flap of tissue covers the esophagus and opens the trachea. So, because the top or the back of your throat is a shared structure it is soft and moldable. If you consider all the different sizes and shapes that one can swallow, you understand how soft and moldable that region must be.

That softness and moldability is a weakness in some patients where when they are asleep and breathing that's soft tissue above the trachea can collapse upon itself during what's called inhalation. The part of breathing where you are taking at breath inward

For more info on sleep apnea:
<URL removed by Moderator>

Quote:ConnCarl Wrote:
Jul 17 2006, 04:41 PM Post #10

Jul 17 2006, 04:38 PM
For more info on sleep apnea:
<URL removed by Moderator>

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Quote:Jay_C Wrote:
Aug 12 2006, 05:01 AM Post #11

damnidunno, your situation sounds eerily similar to mine! I myself am 22 years old, and have been suffering from what is now believed to be sleep apnea.

My problems really started when I was 15. I began sleeping so much, for absolutely no reason, along with that "fog" setting in. I've seen an incredible amount of therapists, doctors, and some psychiatrists too....they have ruled depression out as a cause of what I feel, but i've definitely suffered depression as a side effect.

I just finished a 2 week trial on an auto CPAP machine, and it seemed to help a bit with giving me a boost throughout the day. I am now prescribed a regular CPAP machine, which i'm going to start using this upcoming monday. I'm sick of feeling like this, I know, it pretty much controls you and your day, what you do, etc....I sometimes am in bed for 15 hours, and just paralyzed mentally not being able to get out of bed.

My brain "shuts down" alot of times throughout the day. This affects my speech, balance, and absolutely makes everything seem 10 times harder to accomplish. Anxiety is horrible, so is the depression that comes as a result of this. I had to drop out of school back when I was 15, because I just couldn't concentrate at all.

Hang in there! If it is indeed sleep apnea that we have, hopefully we'll stop feeling this way sooner than later. :ph43r:

I've got alot more to share, lol, but I thought i'd chime in and tell ya you're not alone.


Nov 30 2006, 05:38 AM Post #12

I too experienced brain fog and irrational irritation, extreme tiredeness, anhedonic feelings and after testing for fod allergies , which I had and many people have unknowingly, I went further and tested for heavy metal toxins. Bingo. Mercury and arsenic toxicity more common than you'ld think. I then went to a biologic dentist and had 19 amalgam fillings removed. This releases mercury back into your system and it is a tough few weeks that exaggerate the brain fog. But pretty soon the brain fog lifted and my disposition got better. Currently I am waiting for lumbar laser surgery for nerve impingement and have been unable to stand up for almost a month, so spending endless hours in bed and getting days and nights mixed up, which is how I came upon this discussion. I know I snore and often wake up with dry mouth and can't get back to sleep, then tired in the daytime. As a younger person, I had waking dreams that were so real I used to think of them as hallucinations. Very occasionally, I'll get one now or hear a ringing in my brain that sounds exactly like a real phone. I'm wondering if these symptoms could be related to sleep apnea as I see A couple og peopkle on this thread report similar experiences? Also was interested in the electromagnetic field post. I know if my notebook light or air cleanser is visible or the television red button, I will have a restless night. Comments?
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RE: apnea or depression.. or both?
the one thing that all people with sleep apnea have in common is that they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. so they get diagnosed and treated and no longer have to say it. if you are sick and tired of being sick and tired, tell your doctor. he will know what to do and where to refer you to get diagnosed and treated.
First Diagnosed July 1990

MSgt (E-7) USAF (Medic)
Retired 1968-1990
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