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best mask liner?
#1
For those who use a mask liner, I'm wondering what brand you use? And also whether you feel it cuts down on leaks or whether you are wearing it purely for comfort?

I'm currently using the Silent Night liners for the Amara View mask. As you may know from my other thread, I'm having some major leak problems. I'm really enjoying the liners, but not sure it's making any difference with the leaks.
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#2
Greetings,

My hubby used to use liners with his nose mask. He did buy them (I forget the brand) but since he changed to nasal pillows a liner is not needed.

The CPAP my hubby used when he had the nose mask was old, as in "the brick", with no data capabilities at all; so we do not know if his mask leaked or not; which does not help you at all.

I have seen threads on this forum that liners can be made from tee shirts.

You might want to talk with your medical provider and see if nasal pillows are advisable for you.
Evpraxia in the Pacific Northwest USA
Diagnosed: 44 AHI when supine, O2 down to 82%
Treated since 20 Sept 2014:: 0.7 AHI, Settings 7-15, EPR on Full Time at Level 3
Better living through CPAP/APAP machines!
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#3
I am using an F10 Full Face Mask with RemZzzs liners. My "problem" was leaks with the F10 when pressure exceeded 15 cm or when I flopped around at night and bumped the mask. Both resulted in lots of noise and waking me up frequently and my having to fiddle with the mask to stop the leaks and get back to sleep.

With the liners I seem to be not having the blowout leaks at and above 15 cm. There is a general static level of leaking that is higher than without the liners, but it still stays down around 10 L/min most of the time. I can see the static level increase slowly as the pressure goes up, but it doesn't normally exceed the ResMed recommended limit of 24 L/min which I was getting most of the time with blowouts which occurred without the liners.

With none of the blowouts, buzzes, burps, farts, whistles and other noises I get more sleep and the result has been a reduction in AHI from about 7.5 to about 3.5 at this point. I am in my second week of using the liners.

I believe the reason for the reduction in blowouts is that I have the straps adjusted tighter than they should be to properly seal at lower pressures. The F10 uses an inflated silicone seal/cushion which works best when you have it "floating" above your face. The system works very well for me, up to 15 cm pressure, at that point the seal/cushion pops out and buzzes, and burps, etc. With the Liners I tighten the mask tight enough to prevent those blowouts. The downside is that the mask is not as comfortable as it should be if it were floating as designed. I get the proverbial "red lines" on my face in the morning.

Also, I am trying to use the liners more than once. I seem to be able to use each about 2 or 3 times before it degrades. However, I don't own an iron (my wife and I believe that ironing is against our religion since retiring) and so I have ordered one and will try washing them and then ironing them to see if that restores their efficacy. If not, they are a bit expensive for long term use.

I plan to explore DIY liners with various materials that others have mentioned worked for them at less cost.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
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#4
(05-23-2016, 10:40 PM)Evpraxia Wrote: You might want to talk with your medical provider and see if nasal pillows are advisable for you.

They've had me try them, but I really hated them. Couldn't stand them even for 1 minute. Having said that, I'm having so much trouble with the full face masks, I've ordered a P10 together with a sexy chin strap and am going to give it a concerted effort later this week.

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#5
(05-23-2016, 11:00 PM)FrankNichols Wrote: I am using an F10 Full Face Mask with RemZzzs liners. My "problem" was leaks with the F10 when pressure exceeded 15 cm or when I flopped around at night and bumped the mask. Both resulted in lots of noise and waking me up frequently and my having to fiddle with the mask to stop the leaks and get back to sleep.

I plan to explore DIY liners with various materials that others have mentioned worked for them at less cost.

Sounds like we started CPAP around the same time. I'm glad to see you're having success with it. The SilentNights I've got are supposed to last a week. But yeah, I think theoretically, any cloth should work. I've heard of people using multiple liners at the same time. Have you ever tried that?

I've read about not over-tightening, but it seems like I have to make it tighter or it leaks. Then it's too tight and not comfortable. The F10 had rave reviews, unfortunately, both the small and medium hurt my nose .
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#6
(05-24-2016, 04:11 AM)monikah123 Wrote: But yeah, I think theoretically, any cloth should work. I've heard of people using multiple liners at the same time. Have you ever tried that?

I've read about not over-tightening, but it seems like I have to make it tighter or it leaks. Then it's too tight and not comfortable. The F10 had rave reviews, unfortunately, both the small and medium hurt my nose .
If the F10 hurt your nose I guarantee it was way too tight. Seriously the word "floating" is not an exaggeration. The way I learned to adjust the F10 was to put it on and loosen all four straps as far as possible. Then one at a time tighten the top a little bit each - balancing them - until the mask was lightly touching the bridge of my nose. Then switch to the lower straps and again very slowly tighten back and forth between them. All this is with mask fit - or whatever your machine has that will have full pressure applied while you adjust. Slowly move the bottom down until you can lift the mask off your face easily and when you slowly lower it (keep breathing it helps the seal), you can feel the seals inflate and touch your face. If when you let go of the mask it still leaks, then adjust each of the straps one at a time not more than 1/8 inch. Lift the mask and slowly slower it while breathing, the seal will inflate and touch your face - let go and see if it seals. Keep repeating that until laying on your back the weight of the mask (which is VERY little) is enough to hold the seal. If at ANY point the hard top part of the mask touches your nose the top straps are too tight, so loosen them 1/8 inch and tighten the lower straps 1/8 inch. This rocks/rotates the top of the mask up away from your nose. Then repeat tightening.

Once you can lay still on your back breathing normally and have no leaks at the loosest settings for the straps, then turn your head to one side while breathing. If the mask is too loose the weight of the mask will cause it to shift and start leaking. try lifting the mask and letting it seal again, if it still leaks then, adjust one or two straps as little as possible to stop that leak. Then back to facing up - check there, then turn your head to the other side and repeat. Remember to keep breathing all the while. I found the breathing seems to "trigger" the seal.

Once you can lie on your back and turn your head without leaks, then if you are a side sleeper, try turning mostly on your side and repeat. I find I can lay with my head extending off the pillow so the mask is not touching it and it works fine.

That all sounds complicated, but it only takes a minute or two once you practice it a few times. And at the loosest setting the F10 is extremely comfortable. Also I find I can leave the straps alone and use the same settings for several days without having to readjust them, I think once I made it a week before going through the entire process again. I wash everything once a week and after that I need to readjust the straps.

All the stories of nose irritation and red lines on the face, etc. I have experienced with the F10, UNTIL, I learn to let it literally float. Then you can barely feel it at all. The only mask I have found that is more comfortable than the F10 is the P10. But that is another story.

The problem with the F10 like I said before, for me, is that it works great up to 14 to 15 cm pressure, then it blows out (the thin silicone seal slips out and a major leak occurs). Sadly at this point my best pressure seems to be at 16. I am hoping I can bring it down to 15 and stop using the liners - both for cost and comfort.
I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
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#7
Thanks for sharing. Very well written.

Though I am glad I am able to use nasal pillows.
Evpraxia in the Pacific Northwest USA
Diagnosed: 44 AHI when supine, O2 down to 82%
Treated since 20 Sept 2014:: 0.7 AHI, Settings 7-15, EPR on Full Time at Level 3
Better living through CPAP/APAP machines!
Post Reply Post Reply
#8
(05-24-2016, 12:04 PM)Evpraxia Wrote: Thanks for sharing. Very well written.

Though I am glad I am able to use nasal pillows.

I am so jealous! Although I have not yet given up on P10 Nasal Pillows. I am practicing with them during the day and using my F10 at night. My problem with Nasal Pillows is in learning to keep my big fat mouth shut.

Frank
I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
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#9
(05-24-2016, 08:14 AM)FrankNichols Wrote:
(05-24-2016, 04:11 AM)monikah123 Wrote: But yeah, I think theoretically, any cloth should work. I've heard of people using multiple liners at the same time. Have you ever tried that?

I've read about not over-tightening, but it seems like I have to make it tighter or it leaks. Then it's too tight and not comfortable. The F10 had rave reviews, unfortunately, both the small and medium hurt my nose .

All the stories of nose irritation and red lines on the face, etc. I have experienced with the F10, UNTIL, I learn to let it literally float. Then you can barely feel it at all. The only mask I have found that is more comfortable than the F10 is the P10. But that is another story.

Thank you for writing this out. It really appreciate it. I will try the F10 again.
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#10
I use Remzzz liners with my Simplus. They really help with the leaking. I have a weird, small nose so the leaking is at the top. The liners help cut down on that as well as keeps the silicone off my face. I started using two liners together and have gotten amazing results with it. Leaks have cut down significantly IF the mask is in place. The liner can only do so much and if the mask moves, it's going to leak.

I heart my Simplus. I'd love to go back to nasal pillows but I can't control the lip leaking. I also have much less jaw pain using the FFM. My jaw relaxes in my sleep and falls forward. The FFM keeps it in place.
PaulaO2
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www.ApneaBoard.com


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