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cpap therapy still tired
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rkl122 Offline

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Posts: 74
Joined: Apr 2016

Machine: Philips Respironics System One 560P (Auto, Aflex, 60 Series)
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: PR Dreamware Frame Med, Pillow MW
Humidifier: Remstar System One - Hose Unheated
CPAP Pressure: low 8.5, high 12.5, expting
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: NJ

Post: #11
RE: cpap therapy still tired
Hi wyu177. Looks like the second image's window precedes the first by about 70 minutes. The respiration rate is roughly the same for each. But the earlier one is more regular than the later one, with less of a "zero flow tail" on the exhale. I'll bet the I:E ratio is higher for the later one - not that it would have any particular diagnostic significance. But in general, the later pattern looks more disturbed. That OA may be a false positive, since there's a hyper breath just before it. (Don't know about Resmed, but the resperonics algorithm for OA doesn't require a "probe" of the airway with a pressure pulse. At least, I don't see them on my traces.) I'm not familiar with Resmed output. Both traces are squigly, but the later window moreso, consistent with more disturbed sleep. (The squigly trace could be reflective of a phenomenon called ballistocardiograpy - basically, a modulation of breath flow by the heartbeat - but that's a whole other discussion. It could also indicate snoring or a leak, so check for those.) Check to see what your last sleep study discloses about non OSA-related conditions.

The tired feeling despite good AHI is certainly something to discuss with the doc. However, based on my own experience, it's hard to get the docs to focus on stuff once the OSA is "treated" and stable. But there are things you can do to strengthen your case. Look at windows like the ones you posted for many different nights at different times. After a while, you'll gain confidence in spotting when you really are asleep vs. the "sleep-wake" intervals. You can calibrate using the period just after you retire when you're pretty sure you've transitioned to sleep. Check respiration rate there as well. If you have a recording pulse oximeter, and are one of the lucky ones who can sync the oximetry with the SH flow trace, you'll have an important additional data axis. If you dream, and can identify where on the flow trace the dreams are - for example mine frequently precede a complete wakeup - then you can determine what your respiration rate does while dreaming. Mine goes up dramatically, but I've read that for some it goes down, for others, doesn't change at all. But if it's pronounced, you can determine REM stages from the respiration profile. If you can do that, you can determine whether the machine flags more or fewer events during REM. The common wisdom is there should be more, but in my case there are almost none, even when there are clusters near to the REM stage. The reason I think this is significant is that it is now believed that our musculature is paralyzed during REM sleep. To me, the implication is that if apneas increase during REM, then they are caused by the autonomic nervous system - ie. CPAP tweaking is called for. But if they decrease, the probability in increased that non-REM events are caused by factors unrelated to, or peripherally related to, OSA, hence not treatable by CPAP. Just my working theory. Smile

Lotsa stuff, but in nutshell: the more you learn about your own flow patterns, the sharper will be the discussion with the docs.

Tip for posting more revealing SH charts: Add dotted lines to show zero flow, etc. Leave the cursor on the chart - as you did for the earlier window - to display current value for each parameter. (Maybe can't be done when you clone like that, dunno. Nice use of clone, btw.) Turn off the calendar and the pie chart, and show the data in the left column under Details.

HTH more than confuses. -Ron

We are such stuff
As dreams are made on, and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.
09-20-2016 05:47 PM
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spazmom Offline


Posts: 7
Joined: May 2016

Machine: icon auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: sleepweaver
Humidifier: included
CPAP Pressure: 6/16
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments:

Sex: Female

Post: #12
RE: cpap therapy still tired
I totally understand your frustration. I've been on mine now for about 6 months, and even though it seems like I'm sleeping ok, I'm still tired. For a little while it was less, and I think part of it might be related to my job (afternoons in front of a computer, lol). I asked my doctor and it took a while for him to get a way to read my results. Alls he said was it was working. :-/
09-20-2016 07:32 PM
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wyu177 Offline


Posts: 6
Joined: Aug 2016

Machine: resmed s10 autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: resmed s10 autoset
Humidifier: built in
CPAP Pressure: 6-14
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: United States

Post: #13
RE: cpap therapy still tired
Hi PoolQ, to answer your questions, i'd say "no" to all of them and as for the air temps feel room temperature. I must say besides the first few nights adjusting, i feel I've taken quite well to the treatment. Sometimes I'll wake up and think my nasal pillows are off, so i'll twitch my nose just to confirm its still there!

Again thanks everyone who have replied to this thread. Your insight and words of encouragement are super helpful!

(09-20-2016 12:22 PM)PoolQ Wrote:  Yep it worked, nothing stands out for me, but let's see if some of our waveform experts can pick up on anything.

Do you find you have to "push" the air out when exhaling?
Do you wake up and need to take the mask off for a while and just breathe before putting it back on?
Do you feel like you could use more air than you are getting?
Would you like the air to be "thinner" than it seems?
Do you feel the air as either cold or hot?
09-21-2016 09:32 AM
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