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how to tell if machine is " new "
#1
Ohmy 
There is a scam going on purchasing ' new ' cpap machines from medical equipment suppliers. I chased the rabbit all day trying to insure that the cpap machine I was going to order with doctors script was a brand new machine. The dirty little secret is the supplier don't want to commit to that. They say you could get a new or used machine depending on what was on hand when your order was placed. "There  is no guarantee you would get a new machine but it is possible."

One or more 'managers' actually hung up on me when I pressed the question. Of course the first line of sales always said it would be a new machine. What people do for a paycheck! Disturbing.

Question to this group is how do I really know if the machine I receive is a brand new machine from the manufacture or a 'cleaned' up used machine. To those who don't really think this is an issue, first think about the deceit, and second an example. When the suppliers "guy" came out to get my other new machine(because I said I didn't want it because of a disturbing droning noise, he took it, dropping it from 4 feet on my kitchen ceramic tile floor before he packed it up and left. Wonder who got that one?

I thought maybe these things would have some kind of nonvolatile hour meter inside somewhere. But according to RESMED they do not.

Any help?
Thanks.
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#2
My understand is that there is an absolute run hours counter than cannot be reset.

It's in the Service sub-menu.
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#3
My understanding is the same as justMongo's. On the DreamStation, I believe it's called "blower hours".

When I got mine home, I went into the clinician menus and hunted down that number. It was just about zero (it had a minimal amount of time on it which I knew was from when I was trying on the masks at the DME). If it had been higher, I might have been inclined to return it since it is "a rental" and insist on a new one.

Speaking of rentals... I'm not quite sure what DMEs do with rentals that get returned. My dr/DME looked panicked and furious that I would return my rental (it was less than 30 days, come on now!). I got the impression that he didn't know what to do with it... which made me think 1) will they pass it off as new to someone else?, and 2) not many of their rentals must get returned.
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#4
Best bet is to know how to enter the clinical menu and check the run hours (Resmed) and blower hours (Respironics). These are not able to be reset without replacing the the main board. I'm curious if these are brick and mortar DMEs or online sellers that you are concerned about. FWIW, I think most online sales are more reliable in this regard. I know of a Medicare patient on this forum that was issued a machine with over 1000 hours and built in 2015. I encouraged him to return the machine and refuse it, but I think he just took it even though it was a BiPAP SV Advanced, and he wanted a Resmed.

You never have more power than before you pay the money or sigh the sales receipt.
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#5
Does anyone know what the expectation should be for hours on a new machine? I suspect it may be like cars, there may be a few hours on it from quality testing, etc. I ask because I assumed the machine I got in January was new. It certainly looked new. I just looked at the hours and my usage hours and it appears it had 30-35 hrs on it when I picked it up. That would be the equivalent of 4-5 days of use. I'm not concerned as it seems to work fine.

Still, I don't like the idea of getting a used machine.

My wife is having  sleep study later this month and I suspect may have a machine in her future. I now know how to make sure she gets the right machine. I want to make sure she gets a mew one. I'm sure the DME will be surprised but I will check the hours on the machine before accepting it. I just don't want to be unrealistic in my expectations.

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#6
I think the expectation on a new machine is "0" hours run time or blower. I've never seen a new machine with anything other than 0 out of the box. Granted I've not seen an extraordinary number of machines.
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#7
If the DME has set-up the machine and run it in a bit before delivery (yeah - right?) it may show an hour or two blower time - but that's all. Besides the blower time you should also be able to see the date of manufacture on the label with the model and serial numbers, which can be interesting and helpful in determining if, even if never used, it has the latest firmware updates.
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#8
Mine was manufactured the 22nd week of 2016 so it was a little over 6 months after manufacture when I got it. So it may have been used, but not much. (At most 30-35 hrs and I can't be completely sure of that.)

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#9
It appears that mine had almost 90 hours of use before I got it! I wonder if they charged my insurance company for a new machine? I don't really care that it's been used, because I know the hose was new, and I HOPE they properly sanitized the machine. I don't recall that they told me specifically that the machine was new, and I certainly didn't think to ask. They did tell me that they would lease the machine to my insurance for, I think, six months. They must get a certain number back in that time and give them out again.
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#10
To OP, it's very easy. Have the PT show you the Run hours (blower hours).  You should know in advance how to access that yourself.   There, in the office, find out what those hours are. If more than 1 hour is on the machine, tell the PT that you only want a new machine, not a used one.  Yes, I'm that picky.  If it's been used, it should be sold as a used machine. Otherwise, it's bait and switch.
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