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leaks and liners - finally starting to click for me
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worn_out_in_lebanon Online

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Posts: 270
Joined: Jan 2015

Machine: Resmed A10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F20 (newest Resmed ffm)
Humidifier: Included, ClimateLine tubing
CPAP Pressure: 13-15, EPR:0
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: I.T. Project Manager. Started CPAP therapy March 16, 2015. Untreated AHI 39.

Sex: Male
Location: TN

Post: #1
leaks and liners - finally starting to click for me
This may sound like Captain Obvious to many on here, but it just started to come together for me last night...

Leaks -- small leaks that is -- are not really a "problem" -- as far as the system is concerned.

However, they are a problem for me. Because the noise and the sensation wakes me up, or keeps me awake fiddling with the mask and the straps. Case in point, Friday night I went to bed at 10:30. The mask kept leaking. I would get it to stop in one place and it would spring a leak somewhere else. Or a strap would be too tight and I would loosen it just a little, only to find it was too much. Next thing I knew, it was after midnight and I was still fooling around with it...

Liners -- I had been avoiding these. Wouldn't they just make a leak worse, or make it leak all around?? I tested a homemade liner last night. It didn't make the leaking worse, it made it better. Instead of springing a big leak, it was just a very minor leak. And the noise and the sensation was not distracting. I could sleep with this leak! And I didn't have to keep tightening the straps trying to completely stop it, I could just let it leak a little - I chalked it up to just a slightly increased exhaust vent. Much more comfortable, not trying to get an absolutely 100% no leak situation.

And except for a couple of hours in the middle of the night, the leak rate according to Sleepyhead this morning was the best it's been in a long time. Almost nothing for large portions of the night. A big leak in the middle of the night woke me up, and I adjusted the straps just a little, went right back to sleep and improved the overall leak rate even more, with no more big leaks and no more waking up. (until it was time...)

It was like the "light bulb" came on this morning, when I put it all together and saw the results. Me and leaks can get along after all, simply by using a liner. The leaks don't have to wake me up, and I don't have to continuously fool around with straps, and don't have to tighten them down so dang tight either.

I kept thinking "leaks are evil", "must avoid at all costs". Now I realize it's no big deal. They can be allowed. They just have to be managed. Smile
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 10:54 AM by worn_out_in_lebanon.)
05-04-2015 10:17 AM
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AirSign Offline

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Posts: 85
Joined: Mar 2015

Machine: ResMed Airsense A10 for her
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Nuance / Airfit P10
Humidifier: Airsense A10
CPAP Pressure: 9-16, average under 14
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Seasons here: Wintah, Mud, Road Repair, Wintah

Sex: Female
Location: Road Repair Season, New England

Post: #2
RE: leaks and liners - finally starting to click for me
Lebanon -- did you use a liner with the P10 nasal pillows?

I've never seen any for those, but I would like to try them before giving up on that mask.

As a side-sleeper, who moves about during the night, I think I'm pulling nasal pillows sideways just enough to create leaks, especially with the P10 which has a fixed, unmoveable hose attachment to the pillows. I know that's probably necessary to keep the airflow out of the mask down, but it means I don't have the flexibility to keep the pillows in place when I move from side to side.
05-04-2015 10:26 AM
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worn_out_in_lebanon Online

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Posts: 270
Joined: Jan 2015

Machine: Resmed A10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F20 (newest Resmed ffm)
Humidifier: Included, ClimateLine tubing
CPAP Pressure: 13-15, EPR:0
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: I.T. Project Manager. Started CPAP therapy March 16, 2015. Untreated AHI 39.

Sex: Male
Location: TN

Post: #3
RE: leaks and liners - finally starting to click for me
I need to update my profile... I was using P10 pillows and they worked for a couple of weeks, but I started mouth leaking and couldn't solve it. Now I'm trying a hybrid (mouth mask with nasal pillows on top), and another full face mask too. So I haven't really settled on which mask or even which type of mask yet.

The one I'm trying for now is the hybrid. The liner is for the mouth portion. I can keep the pillows sealed 99% of the time (I'll still get one that pulls down sometimes). But I could never get the mask portion to consistently seal. And I was having to tighten it so much, it was forcing my lower jaw back over the course of the night, which made it leak, so I had to tighten, and the cycle would continue.

What helped me the most for the pillow seal was to keep the headgear high on my head, so the pillow was pulled up instead of back.

I also started using my chinstrap again, because my mouth was falling open inside the mouth mask, and was completely drying out during the night. Also the mouth falling open was causing sealing problems during the night too. I'm hoping the combination of chinstrap, liner, and hybrid mask is finally going to be the winning combination. Smile
05-04-2015 10:38 AM
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worn_out_in_lebanon Online

Advisory Members

Posts: 270
Joined: Jan 2015

Machine: Resmed A10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F20 (newest Resmed ffm)
Humidifier: Included, ClimateLine tubing
CPAP Pressure: 13-15, EPR:0
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: I.T. Project Manager. Started CPAP therapy March 16, 2015. Untreated AHI 39.

Sex: Male
Location: TN

Post: #4
RE: leaks and liners - finally starting to click for me
Also I'm using a Hose Buddy (with any/all of the masks/pillows), which helps reduce the pulling when I roll over to either side.

Another trick that helps sometimes -- instead of rolling onto my side with a pillow against my face, I can get mostly the same effect by laying a firm pillow long-wise behind my back and slightly roll back onto it. It keeps me on my side, but then I don't need a pillow on the front side. I still have a pillow under my head, but my face is not up against it.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 10:46 AM by worn_out_in_lebanon.)
05-04-2015 10:41 AM
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OpalRose Offline

Monitors

Posts: 3,178
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: PR System One REMstar Auto 560 with A Flex
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: AirFit P10 For Her
Humidifier: REMStar heated humidifier with heated hose
CPAP Pressure: Auto Cpap 10-13 AFLEX 1
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Started CPAP Therapy October 23, 2014

Sex: Female
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Post: #5
RE: leaks and liners - finally starting to click for me
worn_out
I use the same pillow technique...works well!

AirSign,
The P10 won't leak if you have the straps positioned correctly. Play around with it. Also, the size of the pillow can make a hugh difference. I moved up one size. The pillow sits gently on the outside of nostril and seal well.

I noticed on Supplier #1's web site, they are selling liners for nasal pillows. I haven't heard of anyone trying them yet. They look a bit pricy, but if it helps...Thinking-about

OpalRose
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 11:43 AM by OpalRose.)
05-04-2015 11:42 AM
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AirSign Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 85
Joined: Mar 2015

Machine: ResMed Airsense A10 for her
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Nuance / Airfit P10
Humidifier: Airsense A10
CPAP Pressure: 9-16, average under 14
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Seasons here: Wintah, Mud, Road Repair, Wintah

Sex: Female
Location: Road Repair Season, New England

Post: #6
RE: leaks and liners - finally starting to click for me
I think my next move will be to set up a camcorder to "watch" me overnight. Since I live alone, there's no human I can shanghai into doing that for me Big Grin

What I think is maybe happening is that not only am I a side sleeper, but I move from side to side during the night. Even though I use a "boomerang" small pillow so that my mask pillows are elevated above bed pillows and don't touch them, when I move to a different side, it's possible that I'm dislodging the seal just enough to create leaks.
Last night, got the red frownie on the machine while using the P10. The straps were high, and I used water-soluble as well. But the mask hose on the P10 is fixed, so even with my hose lift, my movements are probably pulling the pillows away from the sides of the nostrils.
I switched back to Swift LT for the rest of the night, but that didn't solve it either. Actually had a total of 83 Large Leaks over less than 7 1/2 hours, and they happened while I was sleeping. 2 of those were over 300 duration.
I'm hoping to get the Nuance to try next, and see if the pillows stay seated during my bedtime choreography.
So far, for 21 nights, I've had AHI below 5 only two nights, and those were both above 4. It's gone as high as 10.96, average 7.12.

If I get the Nuance and it works, I will certainly report that.
05-04-2015 12:02 PM
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trish6hundred Offline

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Posts: 6,446
Joined: May 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet for Her
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Paykel Simplus
Humidifier: H5i Heated Humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 10 - 7-20 Cm H2O
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments: I started CPAP in 2008. Totally blind since birth.

Sex: Female
Location: Missouri, USA

Post: #7
RE: leaks and liners - finally starting to click for me
Hi worn_out_in_lebanon,
It's good to hear that the liners working out for you.
Keep up the good work.

trish6hundred
05-04-2015 01:25 PM
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worn_out_in_lebanon Online

Advisory Members

Posts: 270
Joined: Jan 2015

Machine: Resmed A10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F20 (newest Resmed ffm)
Humidifier: Included, ClimateLine tubing
CPAP Pressure: 13-15, EPR:0
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: I.T. Project Manager. Started CPAP therapy March 16, 2015. Untreated AHI 39.

Sex: Male
Location: TN

Post: #8
RE: leaks and liners - finally starting to click for me
(05-04-2015 12:02 PM)AirSign Wrote:  Last night, got the red frownie on the machine while using the P10. The straps were high, and I used water-soluble as well. But the mask hose on the P10 is fixed, so even with my hose lift, my movements are probably pulling the pillows away from the sides of the nostrils.

So far, for 21 nights, I've had AHI below 5 only two nights, and those were both above 4. It's gone as high as 10.96, average 7.12.

I used lanolin cream the first few nights, but later discovered I got a better seal without anything added. The water-soluble you are using may be drying during the night and losing the seal it was adding?

When I use the P10, I have to leave a loop hanging down, to allow enough freedom to move side to side, even though the Hose Buddy swivels some too. It's a balance to not have too much hanging down where it's rubbing against my cheek when I'm on my back, but still have enough slack to move. The Hose Buddy is offset a little to one side, and that's the side I leave the extra loop hanging down on.

From your numbers above, I can relate to your frustration with where you are now, compared to where you could be. I hope you get it worked out soon.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 01:33 PM by worn_out_in_lebanon.)
05-04-2015 01:29 PM
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trish6hundred Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 6,446
Joined: May 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet for Her
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Paykel Simplus
Humidifier: H5i Heated Humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 10 - 7-20 Cm H2O
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments: I started CPAP in 2008. Totally blind since birth.

Sex: Female
Location: Missouri, USA

Post: #9
RE: leaks and liners - finally starting to click for me
(05-04-2015 10:26 AM)AirSign Wrote:  Lebanon -- did you use a liner with the P10 nasal pillows?

I've never seen any for those, but I would like to try them before giving up on that mask.

As a side-sleeper, who moves about during the night, I think I'm pulling nasal pillows sideways just enough to create leaks, especially with the P10 which has a fixed, unmoveable hose attachment to the pillows. I know that's probably necessary to keep the airflow out of the mask down, but it means I don't have the flexibility to keep the pillows in place when I move from side to side.
Hi AirSign',
RemZZZ makes liners for nasal pillows, they are fairly new. I am trying them, they work pretty well, I'm still trying to get used to them.

trish6hundred
05-04-2015 01:34 PM
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AlanE Offline

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Posts: 1,496
Joined: Mar 2015

Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: P10 & Mirage Liberty backup
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 10-14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

Sex: Male
Location: Southwest Florida

Post: #10
RE: leaks and liners - finally starting to click for me
I'm another fan of the "hose buddy" after the first week of rolling over and crushing the hose closed I had to try something different.



Using FlashAir W-03 SD card in machine. Access through wifi with FlashPAP or Sleep Master utilities.

I wanted to learn Binary so I enrolled in Binary 101. I seemed to have missed the first four courses. Big Grinnie
05-04-2015 02:58 PM
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