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length of apneas
#1
length of apneas
what is generally considered a lengthy apnea? I see where I had several in the 25 second range and a couple of 30. Overall numbers were good for me, been on cpap/bipap for over 10 yrs and I just dont get those numbers very often of less than 1 ahi a night.


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#2
RE: length of apneas
The length of time it takes to get your blood O2 saturation down to about 87% is 'lengthy'.  After that, it just gets worse.  Generally, anything over ten full seconds is going to be recorded by most machines, but sats can get down as low as 85%, even less, if the apneic event occurs often, or soon after a previous one where the sat hasn't yet fully recovered.  I hope you see that there is no definitive or empirical answer to how lengthy an apneic event must be in order to be deleterious.  
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#3
RE: length of apneas
(08-27-2022, 10:27 AM)mesenteria Wrote: The length of time it takes to get your blood O2 saturation down to about 87% is 'lengthy'.  

If find this to be very helpful info. 1) Could one attempt to approximate the above time by while resting comfortably and monitoring with finger Oximeter gently hold an inhalation and note the time to drop to what you suggest as 87%? I realize that finger tip Oximeters have significant inaccuracy in measurement and this is almost always > with readings of <89% as they are more accurate with readings of say >93%. And of course our physiology "performs" differently while sleeping.

2) Any reference you can cite for the 87% threshold? Given that what is considered to be normal/healthy range changes with age is that also true for the 87% threshold? Since oxygen is a vital "nutrient" for us as a biological organism I'd tend to believe that a hard threshold of what might be harmful would make good sense.

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After writing above I did a search and found this to me interesting 2019 article relevant to this topic:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6444651/   
Apnea–Hypopnea Event Duration Predicts Mortality in Men and Women in the Sleep Heart Health Study
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#4
RE: length of apneas
The relevant information is well down into the article:

Blood Oxygen Level: What It Is & How To Increase It (clevelandclinic.org)

Also:

Safe, Normal, Low Blood Oxygen Levels: Pulse Oximeter Chart (onhealth.com)

And yet a third:

Learn About Oxygen Desaturation Index (ODI) in Sleep (verywellhealth.com)

You will see that there is a bit of a disparity in the claims as to what constitutes 'normal range', 'concerning', and 'get to the ER...NOW!'  The last article is more in line with what I think is the case.
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#5
RE: length of apneas
@mesenteria Thank you for what will be valuable linked articles for me to explore.
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#6
RE: length of apneas
So.. is it worth having Oscar display a daily mean apnea length (MAL ?) ?
It's only a subset of people that know their oxygen numbers.
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#7
RE: length of apneas
(08-31-2022, 08:20 PM)DaveCar Wrote: So.. is it worth having Oscar display a daily mean apnea length (MAL ?) ?
I'm just starting to understand and research this area of monitoring sleep and health, but I'd say that as long as the additional data point does not lead to anxiety that the MAL could be useful info to track and note any trends, however would love for thoughts/input from the far more knowledgeable members on forum.
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#8
RE: length of apneas
It's not an unreasonable question, but I wonder at the utility of it.  If one has enough untreated/intractable flow limitations and apneic events that one's AHI is at 5 or just a bit higher, that's quite a load on the heart.  But if they're all only 11 seconds long, not so much.  What will you do if you find that your AHI is nearer to 1.0, but that your average duration is in the 30 second range?  One such event per hour, if typical, isn't going to burden your heart, and ought not to burden you.  But it COULD burden someone with general anxiety over these matters.
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#9
RE: length of apneas
OSCAR currently displays the Total Time in Apnea, and of course you can count the number of events shown in the Events tab., so those who think the MAL might be useful can figure it out.

Slightly harder to calculate - because it involves hours minutes and seconds - would be the percentage time in apnea. I'm not sure it would be of much use, either.
Apnea Board Monitors are members who help oversee the smooth functioning of the Board. They are also members of the Advisory Committee which helps shape Apnea Board's rules & policies. Membership in the Advisory Members group does not imply medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
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#10
RE: length of apneas
I was pondering something like this;
Person A with an average AHI of 3 and low MAL.
Person B with an average AHI of 3 and a high MAL.

Person A would probably be fine with existing therapy, but B might explore a bit of tweaking.

But, since the whole pap thing is about reducing the A's to H's or even eliminating them altogether, that kind of moots the point of studying the mean length of A's maybe ?
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