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normal breathing
#1
good morning...

Can anyone give me an example of "normal breathing" in a Sleepyhead graph??.

thanks,

Stephen
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#2
I see you got your answer on the other site. Wink


Using FlashAir W-03 SD card in machine. Access through wifi with FlashPAP or Sleep Master utilities.

I wanted to learn Binary so I enrolled in Binary 101. I seemed to have missed the first four courses. Big Grinnie

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#3
(06-09-2015, 12:40 PM)AlanE Wrote: I see you got your answer on the other site. Wink

well not really, I wanted to see what the waveform looked like in Sleepyhead, not the Respironics software...

Maybe there is no normal, lol

Storywizard


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#4
(06-09-2015, 11:09 AM)storywizard Wrote: Can anyone give me an example of "normal breathing" in a Sleepyhead graph??.
Define normal. What is normal for me may not be normal for you. Also, I use a different machine than you do which can affect the way the charts look.
Current Settings PS 4.0 over 10.6-18.0 (cmH2O) BiLevel Auto
TNET Sleep Resource Pages
CPAP Machine Database
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#5
(06-09-2015, 05:49 PM)krelvin Wrote:
(06-09-2015, 11:09 AM)storywizard Wrote: Can anyone give me an example of "normal breathing" in a Sleepyhead graph??.
Define normal. What is normal for me may not be normal for you. Also, I use a different machine than you do which can affect the way the charts look.

thank you, that's more like it..:-)

I appreciate the clarity....

now back to breathing.....

Storywizard
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#6
Well, what normal breathing "looks like", is someone's chest expanding and contracting. You have to look closely. Maybe put a mirror under their nose.

In a program like SH I think the flow limitation graph would probably work the best (no access right now to check). What the xPAP measures is the back pressure inside the closed system of the hose/mask/your lungs. It really has no way of knowing anything else. It has algorithmic features such as being able to detect a certain flutter in that pressure at a certain frequency and identifying that as a snore, but it really knows nothing else other than what the back pressure is at any given moment in time. And SH knows nothing and has no way to measure anything; it simply takes the data from the xPAP and puts it into a nice GUI so its easy to understand.

So with that limited data, the xPAP can still distinguish what is normal and what is not. It can identify an inhale, and an exhale. It can know whether it is too shallow, too slow, too obstructed, too different from the norm, and then make educated guesses about why.

For instance, if you graph the pressure over time through a single inhale and exhale, it can see a steady slow decrease in relative pressure (during the inhale) and a slow increase in pressure (during the exhale), just like when you blow into a balloon the pressure increases, and if you let the air out it decreases. And it can see this pattern as a quasi-sinusoidal waveform, which has a particular signature that implies whether it is normal, or abnormal. If that waveform flattens out during inhale, that can be assumed to be a flow limitation, which is not normal. If the inhale is shallow, that can be interpreted as a hypopnea. If the inhale doesn't come, it pulses the airway to see if it is open, and if open, it designates that as a central event, while if closed, it designates it as an obstructive event. But an obstructed event is only a subset of what can comprise a flow limitation, so it only gets more complicated from there.

So a "normal" waveform in SH will show this quasi-sinusoidal pattern, and if it shows nothing indicating an event (OA, CA, hypop, FL, snore, etc.), that is considered normal. At least that is the oversimplified way of looking at this.

If you blow up the FL graph it probably will become a little clearer. Regardless of what issues you might have, if you are a classic OSA sufferer, most of your breaths are still probably "normal". If you look at those breaths on the FL graph and compare them to breaths where an event is flagged, that might help your understanding. Not really sure what you are going for, but I hope that helps.
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#7
I can easily post a normal Sleepyhead wave form for me during undisturbed sleep, flow limitation or apnea. On the other hand, my "normal" is using CPAP or bilevel pressure. It looks a lot like the wave forms submitted as an example on the other forum. The sleeping wave form looks distinct from awake. This is as normal as I get. Note sharp peaks and valleys and the slower inspiration than expiration, with the flattening of the mid inspiration.

[Image: 5jUMG9Xl.png]
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#8
Thanks for that reply, TS, my machine does not report Flow Limitation, will have to wait till I get a new up to date machine for that...good info for the future though...

Thanks,

Storywizard
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#9
I have posted that normal non-REM sleep breathing halts briefly after the exhale, as seen in Sleeprider's chart above. normal awake non-sleeping has no halt - just continuous inhale exhale inhale exhale. In REM sleep, normal breathing is abnormal-ish and awake-ish. It generally has no halt (as in awake) and it usually has bizarre-ish respiration and tidal volume shiftiness. I hope that is crystal-clear. Smile

QAL
Dedicated to QALity sleep.
You'll note I am listed as an Advisory Member. I am honored to be listed as such. See the fine print - Advisory Members as a group provide advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies. Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
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#10
(06-09-2015, 08:48 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: I can easily post a normal Sleepyhead wave form for me during undisturbed sleep, flow limitation or apnea. On the other hand, my "normal" is using CPAP or bilevel pressure. It looks a lot like the wave forms submitted as an example on the other forum. The sleeping wave form looks distinct from awake. This is as normal as I get. Note sharp peaks and valleys and the slower inspiration than expiration, with the flattening of the mid inspiration.

[Image: 5jUMG9Xl.png]

Thanks for that, Sleeprider...

I am investigating my breathing rhythm, just trying to get an idea of what "normal" might look like...I stop breathing quite a lot, even during the day, there re pauses between in and out...the respiratory system of these bodies can be complex....

thanks again...

Storywizard

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