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[split] ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto technical details
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FFOGHORN Offline
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Posts: 21
Joined: May 2012

Machine: Resmed AirCurve 10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Respironics Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: VAuto: 12 TO 18, PS 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: How do I feel about sleep apnea? Can I sleep on it and give you an answer in the morning?

Sex: Male
Location: Texas, USA

Post: #1
[split] ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto technical details
(08-12-2016 08:25 AM)Sleeprider Wrote:  Also, the pressure support in the Respironics seems pretty invigorating since it seems to ramp up from EPAP to IPAP much faster than the Resmed. In the end, both machines consistently achieved AHI less than 2, and my current results with the Resmed are consistently less than 1.0. Both are good machines, and I was not criticizing your selection.


Actually, the Resmed machine revs up way faster than the Respironics, assuming you set it up that way. Resmed allows Trigger and Cycle sensitivity adjustment and you can get it to cycle very quickly.

I know just what you mean, though. Out-of-the-box, Respironics seems stronger.

Sleep-well


Moderator's note: This thread has been split out of an earlier thread, to allow more detailed discussion of the technicalities of these machines.
08-13-2016 01:41 AM
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PaytonA Offline
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #2
RE: ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto issues
(08-13-2016 01:41 AM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  Actually, the Resmed machine revs up way faster than the Respironics, assuming you set it up that way. Resmed allows Trigger and Cycle sensitivity adjustment and you can get it to cycle very quickly.

I know just what you mean, though. Out-of-the-box, Respironics seems stronger.

Sleep-well

Actually the trigger and cycle sensitivity adjustments are only available with Resmed in the Vauto, S, and ST modes and they do not effect the rise time or the decay time.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2016 11:56 AM by PaytonA.)
08-13-2016 11:55 AM
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FFOGHORN Offline
UNREGISTERED MEMBER

Posts: 21
Joined: May 2012

Machine: Resmed AirCurve 10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Respironics Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: VAuto: 12 TO 18, PS 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: How do I feel about sleep apnea? Can I sleep on it and give you an answer in the morning?

Sex: Male
Location: Texas, USA

Post: #3
RE: ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto issues
(08-13-2016 11:55 AM)PaytonA Wrote:  
(08-13-2016 01:41 AM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  Actually, the Resmed machine revs up way faster than the Respironics, assuming you set it up that way. Resmed allows Trigger and Cycle sensitivity adjustment and you can get it to cycle very quickly.

I know just what you mean, though. Out-of-the-box, Respironics seems stronger.

Sleep-well

Actually the trigger and cycle sensitivity adjustments are only available with Resmed in the Vauto, S, and ST modes and they do not effect the rise time or the decay time.

Best Regards,

PaytonA

I didn't address rise time because it is not a function of VAuto, and VAuto issues are the subject of this thread.

However, trigger and cycle contribute greatly to the sensation felt by the patient. I know this from personal experience. In order to not violate Ti Max, the machine must rise faster. Further, Resmed's own documentation states:

Adjust Trigger Sensitivity: Any time the patient complains or there is evidence that the device doesn’t seem to respond to inspiratory effort;

Adjust Cycle Sensitivity: Any time the patient complains that the device seems to switch from IPAP to EPAP too quickly. As you adjust this setting, the patient may notice a change in the time spent at IPAP.

Sleep-well
08-13-2016 04:09 PM
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Sleeprider Online
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Posts: 3,376
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Machine: Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
Humidifier: Resmed Climateline
CPAP Pressure: Auto Bilevel 18/9, PS 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Where they make Respironics

Post: #4
RE: ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto issues
Ti-min, Ti-Max, trigger and sensitivity for the Resmed Aircurve ST are at this link: http://www.resmed.com/us/en/commercial-p...10-st.html . As Payton said, I don't think the vauto offers this. Respironics BiPAPs have more of these controls in the auto BiPAP. When using the PRS1 760DS, I turned off BiFlex and used Rise Time.

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(This post was last modified: 08-13-2016 07:22 PM by Sleeprider.)
08-13-2016 07:19 PM
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FFOGHORN Offline
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Posts: 21
Joined: May 2012

Machine: Resmed AirCurve 10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Respironics Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: VAuto: 12 TO 18, PS 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: How do I feel about sleep apnea? Can I sleep on it and give you an answer in the morning?

Sex: Male
Location: Texas, USA

Post: #5
RE: ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto issues
(08-13-2016 07:19 PM)Sleeprider Wrote:  Ti-min, Ti-Max, trigger and sensitivity for the Resmed Aircurve ST are at this link: http://www.resmed.com/us/en/commercial-p...10-st.html . As Payton said, I don't think the vauto offers this. Respironics BiPAPs have more of these controls in the auto BiPAP. When using the PRS1 760DS, I turned off BiFlex and used Rise Time.

I have a VAuto and it DOES offer all of the above.

The ST adds the function of a back-up rate setting to guarantee breaths-per-minute for those whose spontaneous breathing is erratic.
08-13-2016 08:51 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #6
RE: ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto issues
(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  
(08-13-2016 11:55 AM)PaytonA Wrote:  
(08-13-2016 01:41 AM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  Actually, the Resmed machine revs up way faster than the Respironics, assuming you set it up that way. Resmed allows Trigger and Cycle sensitivity adjustment and you can get it to cycle very quickly.

I know just what you mean, though. Out-of-the-box, Respironics seems stronger.

Sleep-well

Actually the trigger and cycle sensitivity adjustments are only available with Resmed in the Vauto, S, and ST modes and they do not effect the rise time or the decay time.

Best Regards,

PaytonA

I didn't address rise time because it is not a function of VAuto, and VAuto issues are the subject of this thread.

That is true but you addressed your comments at the Resmed machine and some people like me might take that to mean all Resmed machines. Plus the only thing that gets you from EPAP to IPAP more quickly is faster rise time

(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  However, trigger and cycle contribute greatly to the sensation felt by the patient. I know this from personal experience. In order to not violate Ti Max, the machine must rise faster. Further, Resmed's own documentation states:

If you look at the graphs in the Aircurve 10 clinician's manual displaying the effect of the varying sensitivities you will see that the rise/decay slope remains constant which means the rise time remains constant. The rise time is not controlled by Ti max either.

(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  Adjust Trigger Sensitivity: Any time the patient complains or there is evidence that the device doesn’t seem to respond to inspiratory effort;

Adjust Cycle Sensitivity: Any time the patient complains that the device seems to switch from IPAP to EPAP too quickly. As you adjust this setting, the patient may notice a change in the time spent at IPAP.

Would you please tell me where in Resmed's documentation you found these 2 statements. I have not seen them in the clinician's manual.

(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  Sleep-well

Best Regards,

PaytonA
08-13-2016 09:44 PM
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FFOGHORN Offline
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Posts: 21
Joined: May 2012

Machine: Resmed AirCurve 10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Respironics Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: VAuto: 12 TO 18, PS 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: How do I feel about sleep apnea? Can I sleep on it and give you an answer in the morning?

Sex: Male
Location: Texas, USA

Post: #7
RE: ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto issues
(08-13-2016 09:44 PM)PaytonA Wrote:  
(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  
(08-13-2016 11:55 AM)PaytonA Wrote:  Actually the trigger and cycle sensitivity adjustments are only available with Resmed in the Vauto, S, and ST modes and they do not effect the rise time or the decay time.

Best Regards,

PaytonA

I didn't address rise time because it is not a function of VAuto, and VAuto issues are the subject of this thread.

That is true but you addressed your comments at the Resmed machine and some people like me might take that to mean all Resmed machines. Plus the only thing that gets you from EPAP to IPAP more quickly is faster rise time

(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  However, trigger and cycle contribute greatly to the sensation felt by the patient. I know this from personal experience. In order to not violate Ti Max, the machine must rise faster. Further, Resmed's own documentation states:

If you look at the graphs in the Aircurve 10 clinician's manual displaying the effect of the varying sensitivities you will see that the rise/decay slope remains constant which means the rise time remains constant. The rise time is not controlled by Ti max either.

(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  Adjust Trigger Sensitivity: Any time the patient complains or there is evidence that the device doesn’t seem to respond to inspiratory effort;

Adjust Cycle Sensitivity: Any time the patient complains that the device seems to switch from IPAP to EPAP too quickly. As you adjust this setting, the patient may notice a change in the time spent at IPAP.

Would you please tell me where in Resmed's documentation you found these 2 statements. I have not seen them in the clinician's manual.

(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  Sleep-well

Best Regards,

PaytonA

Perhaps you know something about Resmed's secret algorithms that I don't? In that there is no Rise adjustment under VAuto, I'm not sure why you would assume the relationship I mentioned doesn't exist. The Trigger/Cycle graph you reference is just that. How exactly would you capture an algorithmic Rise variance in such a graph? At the end of the day, I can tell the reader from personal experience that the perception of a faster and stronger Rise is there and, for me, the machine became much more comfortable after that adjustment was made.

The excerpts I posted are from Resmed's Sleep Lab Titration Guide for the S9 Series (page 24). http://www.resmed.com/us/dam/documents/p...o_eng.pdf.

Thanks
08-13-2016 11:21 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #8
RE: ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto issues
(08-13-2016 11:21 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  
(08-13-2016 09:44 PM)PaytonA Wrote:  
(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  I didn't address rise time because it is not a function of VAuto, and VAuto issues are the subject of this thread.

That is true but you addressed your comments at the Resmed machine and some people like me might take that to mean all Resmed machines. Plus the only thing that gets you from EPAP to IPAP more quickly is faster rise time

(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  However, trigger and cycle contribute greatly to the sensation felt by the patient. I know this from personal experience. In order to not violate Ti Max, the machine must rise faster. Further, Resmed's own documentation states:

If you look at the graphs in the Aircurve 10 clinician's manual displaying the effect of the varying sensitivities you will see that the rise/decay slope remains constant which means the rise time remains constant. The rise time is not controlled by Ti max either.

(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  Adjust Trigger Sensitivity: Any time the patient complains or there is evidence that the device doesn’t seem to respond to inspiratory effort;

Adjust Cycle Sensitivity: Any time the patient complains that the device seems to switch from IPAP to EPAP too quickly. As you adjust this setting, the patient may notice a change in the time spent at IPAP.

Would you please tell me where in Resmed's documentation you found these 2 statements. I have not seen them in the clinician's manual.

(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  Sleep-well

Best Regards,

PaytonA

Perhaps you know something about Resmed's secret algorithms that I don't? In that there is no Rise adjustment under VAuto, I'm not sure why you would assume the relationship I mentioned doesn't exist.
The Trigger/Cycle graph you reference is just that. How exactly would you capture an algorithmic Rise variance in such a graph? At the end of the day, I can tell the reader from personal experience that the perception of a faster and stronger Rise is there and, for me, the machine became much more comfortable after that adjustment was made.

The excerpts I posted are from Resmed's Sleep Lab Titration Guide for the S9 Series (page 24). http://www.resmed.com/us/dam/documents/p...o_eng.pdf.

Thanks

You were the one that brought up rise time when you said and I quote, "In order to not violate Ti Max, the machine must rise faster." There is no rise time adjustment in Vauto because the rise time in Vauto is controlled by Easy Breathe.

As far as the graphs are concerned, they are time based graphs. The slope of the nearly vertical lines showing where the rise/decay starts and ends is partially controlled by the rise time. If the slope is the same, the rise time must be the same. What trigger and cycle do is to start the rise/decay earlier or later in one's breathing cycle not changing the rise time.

Your perception is just that - your perception and interpretation of that perception.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
08-14-2016 11:36 AM
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FFOGHORN Offline
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Posts: 21
Joined: May 2012

Machine: Resmed AirCurve 10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Respironics Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: VAuto: 12 TO 18, PS 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: How do I feel about sleep apnea? Can I sleep on it and give you an answer in the morning?

Sex: Male
Location: Texas, USA

Post: #9
RE: ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto issues
(08-14-2016 11:36 AM)PaytonA Wrote:  
(08-13-2016 11:21 PM)FFOGHORN Wrote:  
(08-13-2016 09:44 PM)PaytonA Wrote:  That is true but you addressed your comments at the Resmed machine and some people like me might take that to mean all Resmed machines. Plus the only thing that gets you from EPAP to IPAP more quickly is faster rise time


If you look at the graphs in the Aircurve 10 clinician's manual displaying the effect of the varying sensitivities you will see that the rise/decay slope remains constant which means the rise time remains constant. The rise time is not controlled by Ti max either.


Would you please tell me where in Resmed's documentation you found these 2 statements. I have not seen them in the clinician's manual.


Best Regards,

PaytonA

Perhaps you know something about Resmed's secret algorithms that I don't? In that there is no Rise adjustment under VAuto, I'm not sure why you would assume the relationship I mentioned doesn't exist.
The Trigger/Cycle graph you reference is just that. How exactly would you capture an algorithmic Rise variance in such a graph? At the end of the day, I can tell the reader from personal experience that the perception of a faster and stronger Rise is there and, for me, the machine became much more comfortable after that adjustment was made.

The excerpts I posted are from Resmed's Sleep Lab Titration Guide for the S9 Series (page 24). http://www.resmed.com/us/dam/documents/p...o_eng.pdf.

Thanks

You were the one that brought up rise time when you said and I quote, "In order to not violate Ti Max, the machine must rise faster." There is no rise time adjustment in Vauto because the rise time in Vauto is controlled by Easy Breathe.

As far as the graphs are concerned, they are time based graphs. The slope of the nearly vertical lines showing where the rise/decay starts and ends is partially controlled by the rise time. If the slope is the same, the rise time must be the same. What trigger and cycle do is to start the rise/decay earlier or later in one's breathing cycle not changing the rise time.

Your perception is just that - your perception and interpretation of that perception.

Best Regards,

PaytonA

My original post was about perception - and I stand by it.

You decided to chime in with a series of responding posts which are filled with assumptions and that you have yet to support with fact. I don't feel it does anyone a service to suggest one knows more about Resmed algorithms than he/she can document. I'm well aware of what Trigger and Cycle do, however, under VAuto mode they are interacting with multiple other functions to maintain airway patency on-the-fly.

And incidentally, contrary to your emphatic statement above, Rise time is unrelated to Easy Breathe. I'm certain you will try to educate me on why I'm mistaken, but Easy Breathe isn't a function AVAILABLE under VAuto mode only S mode. Further, one enables or disables Easy Breathe in S mode, so a reader might infer from your statement that there would be no rise time if Easy Breathe were disabled? You did say: "Rise time in Vauto is controlled by Easy Breathe." And the Rise/Decay slope you keep referencing is actually Patient Flow; it doesn't directly represent a timing of Rise.

I submit to you for the last time that the VAuto is a fairly sophisticated piece of equipment. When one scrutinizes Resmed's documentation, however, it becomes fairly obvious that Rise time, which cannot be set in VAuto mode, relies on various algorithms to function and must MUST BE ELASTIC. I cannot prove that - and you can't or won't prove otherwise.

One thing is for certain: if Resmed states that a prolonged Rise time inhibits pressurization and should not exceed Ti Max, then there is an implied correlation between Rise time, Ti Max and perception of comfort. And comfort is what everyone is seeking on this forum.

Nonosign

Grouphug3
08-14-2016 04:45 PM
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Machine: Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
Humidifier: Resmed Climateline
CPAP Pressure: Auto Bilevel 18/9, PS 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Where they make Respironics

Post: #10
RE: ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto issues
I think the technical issues of these machines is interesting, but that in debating them, we don't address Warmbear's concerns or needs. There are capabilities that exist in his machine that have not been tried, and if he asks us to explain what might improve his therapy, and posts supporting data so we're not guessing, then hopefully we can put together a good plan. Meanwhile, he is working with is doctor and the relevant health information is trickling into this thread...and no data. So I can only assume we are coaching him in working with his doctor, but he is not quite ready to strike out on his own.

No problem!

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08-14-2016 05:50 PM
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