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suffocation And CPAP and bilevel devices
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britincanada Offline

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Posts: 81
Joined: Aug 2012

Machine: Respironics BiBpapautoSV Advanced
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model:
Humidifier: unsure
CPAP Pressure: unsure
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #1
suffocation And CPAP and bilevel devices
Hi Guy as you can tell i am new at this and have lots of questions i read the warning on my Face-mask below has anyone experienced this and if so would auninterruptible power supply UPS be the way to go in-case of power cuts


WARNING
•• The mask must be used under qualified supervision for users who
are unable to remove the mask by themselves. The mask may not be
suitable for those predisposed to aspiration.
•• The elbow and valve assembly have specific safety functions. The
mask should not be worn if the valve is damaged as it will not be able
to perform its safety function. The valve should be replaced if it is
damaged, distorted or torn.
•• The vent holes must be kept clear.
•• This mask should only be used with CPAP or bilevel devices
recommended by a physician or respiratory therapist.
•• The mask should not be used unless the device is turned on. Once the
mask is fitted, ensure the device is blowing air.
Explanation: CPAP and bilevel devices are intended to be used
with special masks (or connectors) which have vent holes to allow
continuous flow of air out of the mask. When the device is turned on
and functioning properly, new air from the device flushes the exhaled
air out through the mask vent holes. However, when the device is not
operating, insufficient fresh air will be provided through the mask,
and the exhaled air may be rebreathed.Rebreathing of exhaled air
for longer than several minutes can, in some circumstances, lead to
2
suffocation
(This post was last modified: 09-02-2012 07:44 AM by britincanada.)
09-02-2012 07:40 AM
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oldteddybear Offline

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Posts: 88
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: Resmed Elite S9
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Pilairo (for now)
Humidifier: S9 H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Hosehead since Jan 2012

Sex: Male
Location: Ontario, Canada

Post: #2
RE: suffocation And CPAP and bilevel devices
A UPS is a good idea. I use a nasal/pillow and have had a few power interruptions and just start breathing through my mouth. With a full face you don't have that option. The other option would be a power failure alarm to wake you. Just make sure that the UPS had enough power to last you a nights usage. There is a thread on power failure/camping that you could read for ideas also.
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...r-goes-out
09-02-2012 08:13 AM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Machine: PR System One REMstar Auto (DS560)
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Swift II
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CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Post: #3
RE: suffocation And CPAP and bilevel devices
(09-02-2012 08:13 AM)oldteddybear Wrote:  Just make sure that the UPS had enough power to last you a nights usage. There is a thread on power failure/camping that you could read for ideas also.
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...r-goes-out

No home or small office-grade UPS currently for sale will power any CPAP machine for an entire night. Not enough battery capacity, unless you want to spend hundreds of dollars on a huge UPS system with huge batteries.

Best you're going to get out of a home-grade UPS is maybe 2-3 hours tops, and that's if you don't use the heated humidifier. Use the heated humidifier and you'll get substantially less time on reserve UPS power.

For powering CPAP more than 2-3 hours during a power outage, the best way is usually via a deep cycle, lead-acid 12-volt battery, using either a converter that is designed for your CPAP machine or by running an inverter to convert the 12 volts into standard household 110 volts.

A lot of info on this stuff in the thread that oldteddybear listed, above.

SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

09-02-2012 08:46 AM
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Sleepster Offline
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Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
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CPAP Pressure: MaxI 13.6 | MinE 5.2 | PS 4.4
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Post: #4
RE: suffocation And CPAP and bilevel devices
(09-02-2012 07:40 AM)britincanada Wrote:  Hi Guy as you can tell i am new at this and have lots of questions i read the warning on my Face-mask below has anyone experienced this and if so would auninterruptible power supply UPS be the way to go in-case of power cuts

You don't have to worry about suffocation during a power loss. You'll draw in enough fresh air through the vent holes, and in the case of a full face mask through the anti-asphixiation valve.

If you're really worried about it you can get a simple freezer alarm that plugs into any outlet and makes a loud sound when the electricity goes out.

Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-02-2012 10:15 AM
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britincanada Offline

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Posts: 81
Joined: Aug 2012

Machine: Respironics BiBpapautoSV Advanced
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model:
Humidifier: unsure
CPAP Pressure: unsure
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #5
RE: suffocation And CPAP and bilevel devices
thanks Guys
09-02-2012 10:37 AM
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oldteddybear Offline

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Posts: 88
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: Resmed Elite S9
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Pilairo (for now)
Humidifier: S9 H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Hosehead since Jan 2012

Sex: Male
Location: Ontario, Canada

Post: #6
RE: suffocation And CPAP and bilevel devices
Sorry I live in the Toronto Area and do a lot of work with larger computer systems in my part time job so I am used to the larger UPS units that are available as surplus/refurbished(2000VA APC that will provide 4-5 hours of run time). Either way the UPS systems normally have a power failure alarm that will wake you before the power is fully drained.

A battery charger, deep cycle battery and a car adapter for the xPAP would give you lots of time, It would also be able to be charged by your car if there is no other option. (just remember to keep the battery in a ventelated area).
09-02-2012 01:45 PM
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archangle Offline
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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
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Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
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CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

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Post: #7
RE: suffocation And CPAP and bilevel devices
Lots of people don't understand the risks. If you don't have the anti-asphyxia valve, and the CPAP shuts off, you will be blowing your exhaled air back up the hose and into the water tank. Then, when you inhale, you'll be breathing back the air you've exhaled. The O2 levels will drop, and CO2 will rise.

In industrial situations, this kind of thing can cause you to lose consciousness and eventually die from lack of O2. Google "confined space training". They tell horror stories about people passing out in confined spaces without ever noticing anything is wrong.

Note that this is different from having your airways blocked off. With a non-functioning CPAP machine, you can still inhale and exhale without much effort because the air can flow through the CPAP machine without that much pressure. The problem is that O2 levels slowly drop and CO2 rises.

In a CPAP user, it's assumed that nasal mask users will reflexively open their mouth before harm is done. FFMs have the anti-asphyxia valve that will open and let stale air out and fresh air in.

Most of us will probably wake up if the CPAP shuts off and we breathe stale air, but it's not 100% certain, especially with the "confined space" low O2 effect. Obviously, the problem is worse if you have certain medical conditions, medications, are drunk, etc. Also, as apneacs, we've somewhat gotten used to sleeping without oxygen to some extent.

Even without a functioning anti-asphyxia valve, there's still SOME fresh air. A little air will leak out the normal vent holes in the mask, but since the pressure is lower, not nearly as much stale air will leak out. There's also going to be some mixing of stale air and fresh air out through the filters on the back of the machine.

You may be worried about the anti-asphyxia valve failing. It's a good idea to check it every so often. Unplug the hose, plug the hose connector with your thumb and be sure you can still breathe fairly easily. You shouldn't have real problems unless the mask and the power fail at the same time.

Some people get power alarms that make noise if the power goes off.

Even without a power failure, or with a backup power supply, the CPAP machine itself can fail, get turned off, or you the hose can come loose from the CPAP machine.

If the power goes off and your anti asphyxia valve does work, or you open your mouth, you're back to having sleep apnea. One night probably won't kill you, but you might have some risk of a heart attack or stroke during that one night because you're not as used to apnea, or you've gotten worse.

That covers the O2/CO2 problems. If you vomit during the night with a FFM, you need to be able to get the mask off quickly. Google "aspiration asphyxiation" if you want some more horror stories. Be sure you can get the FFM off quickly in a panic in the middle of the night.

Some people tape their mouth shut to stop mouth breathing. This is like using a FFM without an anti-asphyxia valve and makes the aspiration risk a lot worse.

There's actually some risk from using a chin strap, but I can open my mouth pretty easily even with a chin strap. My respironics chin strap had a warning about asphyxiation.

Re: vent holes

All home CPAP masks have exhaust vent holes, even nasal masks. These leak air all the time when the pressure is on. Without these holes, there would be no place for your exhaled air to go, and you'd eventually suffocate.

On some FFMs, there are two sets of "vent" holes. One for the "normal" exhaust vent, and one set for the anti-asphyxia valve. They all need to be kept clean.

There are some "hospital use only" masks that do NOT have vent holes. They're meant to be used with a special connector that does the venting of the exhaled air. In theory, you could die if you use one of these with a normal CPAP. You will occasionally see these for sale on "unofficial" sites like craigslist or ebay. Sometimes, someone brings one home from the hospital. Be sure anything you use with CPAP is a real home CPAP mask.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
09-03-2012 04:58 PM
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britincanada Offline

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Posts: 81
Joined: Aug 2012

Machine: Respironics BiBpapautoSV Advanced
Mask Type: Full face mask
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Humidifier: unsure
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Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #8
RE: suffocation And CPAP and bilevel devices
Thank-you For a Very in-depth Answer
09-03-2012 05:03 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #9
RE: suffocation And CPAP and bilevel devices
Edited
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2012 08:50 PM by zonk.)
09-03-2012 05:45 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
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Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
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CPAP Pressure: MaxI 13.6 | MinE 5.2 | PS 4.4
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

Sex: Male
Location: Houston, Texas

Post: #10
RE: suffocation And CPAP and bilevel devices
(09-03-2012 04:58 PM)archangle Wrote:  There's actually some risk from using a chin strap, but I can open my mouth pretty easily even with a chin strap. My respironics chin strap had a warning about asphyxiation.

Like if you choke while trying to swallow it?!

Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-03-2012 07:57 PM
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