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AlanE Offline

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Post: #1
testosterone
Last visit to the GP he asked me how my libido was. Not his business so I said nothing. He asked if ordering a testosterone check would be needed. I said why not. The whole testosterone thing for a guy my age is sketchy at best. And even if it is low, I've heard more about how bad supplements are compared to just living without a 'desire'. don't get me wrong, this isn't a "I've fallen and can't (it) get up" scenario. :grin:

I guess my question is, if you know or heard anything - do testosterone treatments really work or are they just not worth it? So many side effects and lawsuits it makes me want to just forget the whole thing.



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06-04-2015 04:37 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #2
RE: testosterone
It all depends on why you need it, and no, it really doesn't have to do with sex drive and "keeping it up" but rather the quality and content of the semen, etc. And of course it has other uses in the body, not just for sex, although we tend to primarily associate it with sex. So I would be cautious and be very sure, if you were to take a supplement, as to why you were taking it, and yes, they do work, up to a point. But if you are expecting to perform like a 20 year old, sorry, that is not on the cards - that performance actually has little to do with hormones and a lot to do with valves and blood pressure and other aspects that just tend to wear out as you age, and there is nothing short of surgery to help that, and even then only to a certain extent (the little blue pill is a temporary help, but also dangerous). Nor will it drive you into massive bouts of horniness, although in people who have a lowered libido it can restore it to normal for the age, more or less. Hair loss can happen, but is no real threat to anyone over 60. So, if you don't need it for lifestyle adjustment, and there is no pressing medical need to bring it up to the norm for your age, then don't bother - what a test will establish is if you are at the norm for your age or seriously below it - since you need hormones all your life for various bodily functions, you may need to bring them back up to level for your age, but I would not consider boosting your levels above your age average unless there is a specific reason, such as the desire to sire a child. Once you have your results, go over carefully with your GP as to what real advantage you would get by bringing the levels up to your age norm. If those advantages are not ones you care about, forget it. But also ask what potential dangers exist in the lowered levels in terms of life expectancy, chronic illnesses and other life quality concerns. If you are seriously considering taking the supplement, as the same question again, this time in terms of the dangers in taking the supplement.
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2015 05:21 PM by DocWils.)
06-04-2015 05:20 PM
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Sleeprider Offline
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Post: #3
RE: testosterone
It's a personal decision, and it's not irrevocable. Hypogonadism is not uncommon in men in their 50s+ and the potential symptoms are E.D. libido, fatigue, depression, lack of concentration, weight gain, and a lot of other things that might be more subtle.

Treatment consists of injecting or absorbing testosterone to restore "normal" levels. Treatment generally makes you dependent on exogenous T as it supresses the complex endocrine system that provides feedback for natural production. Don't take it unless you need it.

I was in your shoes a year ago and got some pretty surprising results back. I'd say treatment can restore some libido, focus and energy, but don't expect miracles. The point of hormone replacement therapy (HRT) isn't to make you Superman, but to restore normal functional levels of T that you no longer produce on your own. This is not nutritional supplements. You WILL increase your serum levels of T through either absorption or injection. The process requires a number of appointments with a urologist or endocrinologist as well as supporting blood tests. The real question is whether you should treat the T deficiency directly, or try to increase natural T by taking gondotropin releasing hormone.

Do the test and take it a day at a time. Maybe you have a problem, maybe you don't. Why live with the question? FWIW, if you wonder if a guy in his 60s needs a sex life, you might be a candidate for HRT.

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(This post was last modified: 06-04-2015 05:24 PM by Sleeprider.)
06-04-2015 05:20 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #4
RE: testosterone
Mine is sub-normal (206 ng/dL.) I wonder if it wouldn't help me by reducing central obesity; and restoring the ability to build muscle.
I'm more interested in how I feel. I may not be a good candidate for exogenous T. I do have cardiac issues.
The gels cost an arm and a leg even with insurance.

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06-04-2015 06:18 PM
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Sleeprider Offline
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Post: #5
RE: testosterone
I use testosterone cypionate which is injected using a 23 gauge needle. If you can get past that, it's a lot less expensive. Out of pocket, T-cypionate is about $140 for 2000 mg 10 mL vile which at 100 mg/week (5 cc) is of course 20 weeks. Androgel 1.62 was something like $400 for a 30 day supply and didn't work for me.

My T-levels were 176-192 before treatment. Maybe I shouldn't ride hot motorcycles?

I'd say, try it for a year. If you don't think it does anything positive, quit. You'll go back to your normal after a short downturn. Weight loss and muscle gain are a matter of attitude. It can be more effective with proper levels of T, and you might feel more energy, but you won't be magically levitated off the couch. It still takes work.

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06-04-2015 06:50 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #6
RE: testosterone
(06-04-2015 06:18 PM)justMongo Wrote:  Mine is sub-normal (206 ng/dL.) I wonder if it wouldn't help me by reducing central obesity; and restoring the ability to build muscle.
I'm more interested in how I feel. I may not be a good candidate for exogenous T. I do have cardiac issues.
The gels cost an arm and a leg even with insurance.

No, it would not help in weight loss - diet and exercise is all that counts here - cut the carbs and sugars. The weight is one reason you have lowered testosterone and the diet and exercise that helps you to lower your weight naturally helps in restoring your levels to the norm for your age. People who think taking testosterone supplements will help them to lose weight have the causality backwards. Your ability to build muscle is not an issue, unless you are talking about bulking the muscle and even there, not a good idea - you can build muscle strength without a supplement. No shortcuts, please. At any rate, if by cardiac issues you mean cardiac based circulatory differentials you would not be a safe candidate for testosterone of any sort - you might risk stroke.

At best you might consider natural ways to boost your levels - walk briskly 10 to 15 minutes a day, for instance.

Cut out sugars to the maximum extent you can.

Review your meds: Opioid drugs such as fentanyl, MS Contin, and OxyContin, glucocorticoid drugs such as prednisone, and anabolic steroids used for building muscles and improving athletic performance all can take a toll on your body's natural way of producing testosterone. So review your meds with your doc and if you need to adjust them, do so - but do not stop taking them on your own just because of the testosterone levels in your body - they are there to help in other ways.

Reduce your stress - don't pull long work shifts, and spend at least two hours a day on non-work or exercise related activities that you enjoy (no, not drinking or bellying up to the BBQ)

Two words - garlic and avocados - great for you. Not necessarily together. Olive oil as well, preferably virgin or extra virgin - imported from my sister's farm in Tuscany is the best, of course, but other commercial brands are okay Wink

Egg yolks can give you a natural hormone boost - the cholesterol in them is a natural precursor to testosterone and allows the body to convert it fast - there is no effect on your body's cholesterol from eating up to three eggs a day, or even more, according to new studies that show dietary cholesterol has little to no effect on bodily levels. Tuna is also a good candidate to help boost your levels, but I won't touch it. Eat oysters and shellfish (for the zinc, an very important way of boosting testosterone), too, along with beef liver. Beans, beans and beans (they're musical fruits), preferably not cooked. In short, more or less the Mediterranean diet.

Non prescriptive supplements are lie, all of them, so forget them and don't go near them - some are even dangerous. So don't even think about them. Around the only non prescriptive supplement that actually has any safe effect is vitamin D supplements - they work, especially when administered as a bolus.

Do not even think about taking testosterone supplements without fully qualified medical guidance by a practising physician. Online forums touting one sort of testosterone against another are dangerous nonsense, and online sales of it may lead you to damage yourself due to overdosing or contaminated medications, or just plain rubbish disguised as medication. Only a physician who is familiar with your case and has full access to all your history should prescribe any form of testosterone treatment.


The doc has spoken.

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(This post was last modified: 06-04-2015 08:48 PM by DocWils.)
06-04-2015 07:20 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #7
RE: testosterone
Doc, I don't take anything without running it past my GP. Even if prescribed by another physician, I inform my GP.
I don't touch ethanol, opiates, or steroids. In my working years, I was drug tested and polygraphed.
Never touched an illicit drug.

How do I get my hands on your sister's extra virgin olive oil from Tuscany?

I'll PM my med list.

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06-04-2015 09:41 PM
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FLcracker Offline

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Post: #8
RE: testosterone
I take a V***** pill every night just before bedtime....

No...not for 'That'...

It's for when I get up in the morning, I don't pee on my feet...

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06-05-2015 06:00 AM
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AlanE Offline

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Post: #9
RE: testosterone
Thanks for the information. I dislike taking medicine. Some of these have side effects that are worse than what they are supposed to treat. Then you take more medicine to counteract the side effects of the last. I'm all for homeopathic or natural ways when it works.

Yeah Doc, how about that evoo? Smile



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06-05-2015 07:33 AM
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Mark Douglas Offline

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Post: #10
RE: testosterone
My problem is being "in the mood" more or less constantly. <sigh>
I should have been born Mormon.
And no this is NOT a brag it's a PITA.

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06-05-2015 07:52 AM
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