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what amount of leak is considered normal?
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mycorrado Offline

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Post: #1
what amount of leak is considered normal?
Hi,

I am using the P10 nasal pillow. My Sleepy head chart is showing some periods of about 38 (Don't see the unit..) Is this normal or above normal?

I don't think I am opening my mouth, my throat is fine in the morning.

Thanks!
06-04-2014 10:48 AM
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retired_guy Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
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Post: #2
RE: what amount of leak is considered normal?
(06-04-2014 10:48 AM)mycorrado Wrote:  Hi,

I am using the P10 nasal pillow. My Sleepy head chart is showing some periods of about 38 (Don't see the unit..) Is this normal or above normal?

I don't think I am opening my mouth, my throat is fine in the morning.

Thanks!

You can have spots during the night when your leak numbers get higher for a number of reasons. The important thing is what are the averages? What is your median and 95% numbers? When you look at your leak graph, mentally draw a line across the graph at around 25. Are you under that line most of the time? If so, you're golden.

By the way, welcome to the site!
06-04-2014 11:37 AM
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mycorrado Offline

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Posts: 7
Joined: May 2014

Machine: resmed autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: P10 Airfit
Humidifier: h5i
CPAP Pressure: 3
CPAP Software: ResScan

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Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #3
RE: what amount of leak is considered normal?
Thanks!, I see.. the median is 12 and the 95 was 27.6. mosts of it seems under 25 Wink
06-04-2014 02:24 PM
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zonk Offline

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Machine: A10 AutoSet
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Post: #4
RE: what amount of leak is considered normal?
(06-04-2014 02:24 PM)mycorrado Wrote:  Thanks!, I see.. the median is 12 and the 95 was 27.6. mosts of it seems under 25 Wink
Under 25 is fine (the lower, the better) as long as not disturbing you and getting some decent sleep

User profile .... CPAP Pressure: 3
As CPAP pressure does not goes below 4, I assume 3 is EPR setting or humidifier setting
06-04-2014 04:35 PM
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herbm Offline

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Post: #5
RE: what amount of leak is considered normal?
You should do your best to keep the 95% under 24 for the vast majority of the night -- not necessarily every minute.

Some people claim to just get up for the bathroom and leave it running (I shut mine off.)

Actually I ALWAYS put on my mask first and hook it up before turning ON the machine; in the morning I ALWAYS turn OFF the machine before taking it off -- I never do either of these while lying down. This is just something I decided to do when starting with the determination to be totally 100 COMPLIANT.

Also note that while 95% at 24 is OK there is probably no good reason for having this much leak and it likely is making noise or annoying you in some way, e.g., your mouth is open and results in dry mouth or it is fluttering and whistling.

With the P10, my MAX leak is almost never above 24 (at all), 95% is seldom above 12, and the median is almost always 0.0

Everyone is different but then my results are with NO extra measures except ensuring my pillow are fitted carefully and doing my best to NEVER FIDDLE with them unless there is evidence of a leak which must be corrected immediately -- even if it means getting up to go look in the mirror.

BTW, I think everyone new to the mask would benefit from fitting at the MIR.ROR before hooking it up. At least at first.

Also, fitting the pillows BEFORE turning on the pressure even if you do this bedside. If the mask get knocked loose or develops other significant leaks, I generally turn off the machine briefly to reset it correctly.

Sweet Dreams,

HerbM
Sleep study AHI: 49 RDI: 60 -- APAP 10-11 w/AHI: 1.5 avg for 7-days (up due likely to hip replacement recovery)

"We can all breathe together or we will all suffocate alone."
06-05-2014 11:01 PM
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Gabby Offline

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Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet For Her
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Post: #6
RE: what amount of leak is considered normal?
(06-05-2014 11:01 PM)herbm Wrote:  You should do your best to keep the 95% under 24 for the vast majority of the night -- not necessarily every minute.

Some people claim to just get up for the bathroom and leave it running (I shut mine off.)

Actually I ALWAYS put on my mask first and hook it up before turning ON the machine; in the morning I ALWAYS turn OFF the machine before taking it off -- I never do either of these while lying down. This is just something I decided to do when starting with the determination to be totally 100 COMPLIANT.

Also note that while 95% at 24 is OK there is probably no good reason for having this much leak and it likely is making noise or annoying you in some way, e.g., your mouth is open and results in dry mouth or it is fluttering and whistling.

With the P10, my MAX leak is almost never above 24 (at all), 95% is seldom above 12, and the median is almost always 0.0

Everyone is different but then my results are with NO extra measures except ensuring my pillow are fitted carefully and doing my best to NEVER FIDDLE with them unless there is evidence of a leak which must be corrected immediately -- even if it means getting up to go look in the mirror.

BTW, I think everyone new to the mask would benefit from fitting at the MIR.ROR before hooking it up. At least at first.

Also, fitting the pillows BEFORE turning on the pressure even if you do this bedside. If the mask get knocked loose or develops other significant leaks, I generally turn off the machine briefly to reset it correctly.

Herb, with my P10 I do exactly the same as you re: turning the machine on and off.

I do not however put it on in front of a mirror. I put it on in bed and adjust it and then when I turn it on and start to breath I am able to tell straight away if I have leaks or not. I can tell because I hear them.
If I do have them I just keep adjusting, at first with the machine still on until I am able to fix but if I am unable to fix leaks, I turn machine off take mask off, put mask back on, turn on machine and start again. I usually get it on the second go.
Most times I am able to fit the mask correctly the first time.
When I used to be able to read my leaks etc., my leaks were always in a very reasonable category for the best part.

I don't think I would gain anything from putting the mask on in front of a mirror but I am an old time user now.
I think we all work out our own ways of doing things.
I agree with you about turning the machine off whenever you are not wearing the mask or going to the bathroom etc.

Sleep Tight...
Gabby
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2014 06:47 AM by Gabby.)
06-06-2014 06:44 AM
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Gabby Offline

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Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet For Her
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Mask Make & Model: Philips Nuance Nasal Mask
Humidifier: ResMed AirSense 10 For Her
CPAP Pressure: 8-14
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Female
Location: Sunshine Coast, Qld., Australia.

Post: #7
RE: what amount of leak is considered normal?
(06-04-2014 10:48 AM)mycorrado Wrote:  Hi,

I am using the P10 nasal pillow. My Sleepy head chart is showing some periods of about 38 (Don't see the unit..) Is this normal or above normal?

I don't think I am opening my mouth, my throat is fine in the morning.

Thanks!

Welcome mycorrado, the others have given you good information.
The P10 is a great Nasal Mask. I am sure you will get to the minimal leaks.
Good luck.

Sleep Tight...
Gabby
06-06-2014 06:52 AM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #8
RE: what amount of leak is considered normal?
(06-04-2014 10:48 AM)mycorrado Wrote:  Hi,

Howdy! What is your CPAP pressure? Your profile says 3, but that's not possible as the minimum is 4.

Quote:My Sleepy head chart is showing some periods of about 38 (Don't see the unit..) Is this normal or above normal?

This is way above normal, you want to keep it below 24. The units are liters per minute.

Quote:I don't think I am opening my mouth, my throat is fine in the morning.

My suspicions are that you are opening your mouth. Look again at the SH graphs and see how long these periods of large leak last. During these times the leak is so large that the CPAP machine can no longer maintain the pressure splint, and your airway can collapse in the same way it would if you had no CPAP machine at all.

The remedy for mouth-leaking is a chin strap.

The leak may instead be due to your mask dislodging, but if that's the case you'd have to awaken and adjust it back into position. You could also try a different mask to see if that fixes the problem, or you might try adjusting the mask you have.

About how many times, or how often, do you recall waking during the night?

Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
06-06-2014 11:27 AM
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robysue Online
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Post: #9
RE: what amount of leak is considered normal?
(06-04-2014 10:48 AM)mycorrado Wrote:  Hi,

I am using the P10 nasal pillow. My Sleepy head chart is showing some periods of about 38 (Don't see the unit..) Is this normal or above normal?

On a Resmed anything over 24 L/min is an official Large Leak.

But the occasional short lived large leak is not something to worry too much about: Resmed's Mr. Red Frowny Face (the "bad leaks" icon) doesn't show up on the short version of the S9 LCD's Sleep Quality Report unless your leak rate is over 24 L/min for at least 30% of the night.

So when you say "some periods" are all the way up to 38, the question becomes:

How long do the large leaks last each night?

If we're talking about 1-3 large leaks that each last less than 10 minutes and you are sleeping through them, I'd say, don't get too worried about them, but do watch them.

On the other hand if we're talking about an hour or more of total time at or above 24 L/min, then I'd say you need to do something to address the leaks.
06-06-2014 12:36 PM
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