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why do some need a docs script for a machine?
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space45 Offline

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Post: #1
why do some need a docs script for a machine?
in Canada we can just buy a machine, they offer a testing service to see if you could be helped by buying one.

their testing system is very rudimentary and they do not get into any details of your/there testing, even tho they are trained and a doc reviews your test results from the testing machine.

why can one not just buy a machine and try it out to see if it helps?

I really hate having to ask a doc for testing or to buy a machine or what ever.
if your willing to buy it and think it will or may help then why should a doc get involved?

I can see getting same help from a doc but one should not be forced to see and convince a doc you need a machine, one may be tiered of hearing your wife complain about your snoring and just want a machine for that reason alone

I just do not see the NEED for a doc script to buy a cpap machine
03-18-2014 11:27 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #2
RE: why do some need a docs script for a machine?
I,m all for patient involvement with their treatment but still think "sleep study" is the preferred option for diagnoses of OSA and other sleep disorders

as it stand now, you cannot buy complete mask without script but you can buy mask parts that can put together to make a complete mask ...silly
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2014 01:00 PM by zonk.)
03-19-2014 04:43 AM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Post: #3
RE: why do some need a docs script for a machine?
(03-18-2014 11:27 PM)space45 Wrote:  I just do not see the NEED for a doc script to buy a cpap machine

Hi space45, welcome to Apnea Board! Wave

I tend to agree with you that prescriptions should not be required for CPAP machines. It's highly unlikely that improper use of CPAP will cause imminent deadly harm to someone who is educated in how to properly use a CPAP machine. It's not like we're dealing with highly-addictive narcotics, here. If one chooses to "go it alone" and self-treat by performing their own titration, I would first recommend that they become fairly well educated on the proper way to do that, preferably using a fully data-capable auto-CPAP machine and using data-reporting software (ResScan, SleepyHead, EncoreBasic, etc) for analysis. Analysis software for personal computers is available free of charge for many of the more popular machines. Download instructions are in the Private Files and Links Forum.

That said, I must express some caution here: There is a difference between sleep apnea treatment and sleep apnea diagnosis. It may be a mistake for someone to assume that they have sleep apnea simply because they snore, or have other sleep apnea-like symptoms. There are other medical issues that may be causing these symptoms and for us to assume that it's obstructive sleep apnea at the heart of the issue may be an incorrect assumption. For that reason, around here we usually recommend that if at all possible, patients should undergo a proper sleep study for diagnosis. By undergoing a sleep study, they may find that they have other medical problems causing the symptoms and that it's not related to sleep apnea at all. In such cases, administering CPAP treatment might actually worsen the symptoms. Or, a sleep study patient may find that they have central sleep apnea (CSA) for instance, which would warrant a different type of treatment than what is used for obstructive sleep apnea (OSA).

Apnea Board exists for patient empowerment and we always like to see clear-thinking members here take a more active role in their own treatment - patients should have the right to make their own medical decisions, after all. That approach generally helps to provide a more successful outcome. We also exist for patient education, and we believe that involving medical professionals (when possible) also helps to provide a more successful treatment outcome. It's really a more balanced approached, and not the "wild, wild west of self-treatment" that some have accused us of. And it's the polar opposite of what some haughty medical professionals with huge egos proclaim - (the types who say something like "As a state-certified, trained sleep doctor, you should just trust me and do what I tell you - there's no way that you as an untrained patient can ever understand all the issues involved with sleep apnea treatment").

A good sleep doctor will take the time to help educate the patient and answer questions. Bad sleep doctors sometimes think they are too busy to answer questions posed by "ignorant, untrained patients"-- they almost demand blind acceptance of their "medical dictates" with no explanation given. If you find a good sleep doctor who listens to you and helps you to take a more active role in your treatment, that's a very good thing.

I'd say educate yourself and use as many resources as you can-- through your own reading and research, opinions of other patients here on the forum, your doctors and health care professionals' advice and any other tool you can use to make an informed decision.

Once you've done all you can do using available resources, then of course, you as the patient have the right to make those decisions yourself, and you shouldn't have your freedom of choice taken away by some overly cautious "nanny-state" government who seems to be saying "We know what's best for you" or "We need to protect you from yourself".

Just my personal opinion, of course. Coffee

SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

03-19-2014 09:10 AM
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me50 Offline

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Post: #4
RE: why do some need a docs script for a machine?
one thing concerns me and that is using vpap with a trach (no mask and with a humidifier which I can't understand how that can be done but I am not a doc or RT) which seems like that would be an unhealthy idea. This is another reason why the patient and the docs (and if the doc isn't listening as has been mentioned above, find another one) need to work together to make SA treatment as successful as it can be.
03-19-2014 10:06 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #5
RE: why do some need a docs script for a machine?
In my opinion, many sleep practices are groups of doctors who would rather not do the hard work of front-line medicine.
There is more profit in running patient's through with minimum time spent.

My doc is a 3 minute wonder. I see him for 3 minutes and wonder where he went.
My DME wouldn't give me supplies because "I hadn't seen the doc in 6 months."
That's male cow dung -- an Rx is good for a year.

edit: fixed 60 should be 6

Mods, can we have strike through text to permit an edit to be so marked?

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2014 12:42 PM by justMongo.)
03-19-2014 10:09 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #6
RE: why do some need a docs script for a machine?
(03-19-2014 10:09 AM)justMongo Wrote:  In my opinion, many sleep practices are groups of doctors who would rather not do the hard work of front-line medicine.
There is more profit in running patient's through with minimum time spent.

My doc is a 3 minute wonder. I see him for 3 minutes and wonder where he went.
My DME wouldn't give me supplies because "I hadn't seen the doc in 60 months."
That's male cow dung -- an Rx is good for a year.

I'm off to see him in 20 minutes... waste of time.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
03-19-2014 10:10 AM
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retired_guy Offline

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Post: #7
RE: why do some need a docs script for a machine?
(03-19-2014 09:10 AM)SuperSleeper Wrote:  Once you've done all you can do using available resources, then of course, you as the patient have the right to make those decisions yourself, and you shouldn't have your freedom of choice taken away by some overly cautious "nanny-state" government who seems to be saying "We know what's best for you" or "We need to protect you from yourself".

Yes. The government is keeping us safe. If these machines were "over the counter" then we'd be flooded, flooded I say, with machines with more and more features and capabilities to try to get their portion of market share. Machines that would not only pump air into us all night, but would gently awaken us in the morning having automatically started the coffee and cooked the toast. All for $49.95 at your local Best Buy store.
But then, insurance wouldn't cover it. And the government wouldn't be keeping us safe. Who knows? We might need to be on a gluten free diet and not know it.
03-19-2014 12:16 PM
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SnuffySleeper Offline

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Post: #8
RE: why do some need a docs script for a machine?
(03-18-2014 11:27 PM)space45 Wrote:  in Canada we can just buy a machine, they offer a testing service to see if you could be helped by buying one.

This is not true, as the rules for pap machines and acquiring them differ from province to province. Saying one rule is all of Canada is wrong.

In Ontario you need a prescription from a doctor with a sleep study done by a certified sleep lab. This may be because the Ontario government under the adp program pays for your Cpap machine or there are plenty of doctors and sleep labs in the urban areas of the province.

British Columbia works similar as I will be moving there shortly and looked into it. Some provinces (even more rural areas in ontario or bc) are more liberal with the rules as there's not enough sleep labs or doctors so they don't require a prescription, but that's only because of lack of sleep doctors and they don't want people driving hours to do sleep studies and doctors visits.
03-19-2014 12:25 PM
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SleepWrangler Offline

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Post: #9
RE: why do some need a docs script for a machine?
(03-19-2014 12:25 PM)SnuffySleeper Wrote:  This is not true, as the rules for pap machines and acquiring them differ from province to province. Saying one rule is all of Canada is wrong.

In Ontario you need a prescription from a doctor with a sleep study done by a certified sleep lab. This may be because the Ontario government under the adp program pays for your Cpap machine or there are plenty of doctors and sleep labs in the urban areas of the province.

British Columbia works similar as I will be moving there shortly and looked into it.

Dollars can expedite anything. If you look at space45's posts he is very anxious to get started ...
03-19-2014 02:03 PM
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SnuffySleeper Offline

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Post: #10
RE: why do some need a docs script for a machine?
(03-19-2014 02:03 PM)SleepWrangler Wrote:  Dollars can expedite anything. If you look at space45's posts he is very anxious to get started ...

Perhaps, but the main point was that in "Canada" you can just buy a machine, which isn't true. You need a prescription and it's much more complicated pertaining to the rules from province to province. I have no idea what these "testing services" are, but it could be possible I guess, but not in Ontario.

If anyone wants to buy a machine and they find somewhere willing to sell them one without a prescription then that's a pretty grey area, but he never specified where in Canada he is, and which vendor would sell him a pap machine. I would actually be interested in getting more details, as I know it changes drastically from province to province and maybe some provinces just have "tests" and sell you a machine without doctor intervention, but it sounds shady to me and it's definitely not all of Canada.
03-19-2014 04:29 PM
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