Leaks are so confusing... - Printable Version

Leaks are so confusing... - Printable Version

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Leaks are so confusing... - FrankNichols - 04-25-2016

I am trying to get my "leaks" under control before getting to pysc'd about my AHI (AHI running around 6.5 to 8.5 right now). I thought simple things first - yeah, right.

My problem is, I don't know what I am looking at while trying to interpret the charts in SH. I have read numerous places that the AirSense subtracts the intentional leak (vent) from the reported leak rate based on the mask specified. So, if that is true and if I have a perfect seal (I know I won't) then I would expect the leak rate to be around/at 0.

My FFM (F10) in two weeks of testing stayed mostly around 8, ignoring the unintentional leaks when I flopped on my side etc. However, one day with a bit of fiddling and strap adjusting, etc, it stayed at about zero (0) all night.

Now, I have been trying a P10 Nasal Mask for about a week. I set the mask to nasal in the clinical settings and every day it seems to hover around 10 (except for when it goes crazy because of my flopping around and/or I am mouth breathing).

These numbers are looking at the chart in SH. I see the same thing in the chart in Rescan.

So, what should be the normal leak rate base line if I have no unintentional leaks in SH? 0 L/M?
8L/M for F10
10L/M for P10?

RE: Leaks are so confusing... - Crimson Nape - 04-25-2016

(04-25-2016, 12:40 PM)FrankNichols Wrote: Now, I have been trying a P10 Nasal Mask for about a week. I set the mask to nasal in the clinical settings and every day it seems to hover around 10 (except for when it goes crazy because of my flopping around and/or I am mouth breathing).

The P10 is set to "Pillows" in the setting. The "Nasal" is for the mask that looks like a mini-FFM and covers only the nose.

I hope this may help.

RE: Leaks are so confusing... - PoolQ - 04-25-2016

if you have two traces on the SH leak chart the highest trace is the unadjusted rate (includes vent) and the lower trace is the actual calculated leak rate. Yes it "should" be at zero. There are only two requirements 1. whatever it is doing, can you sleep through it? 1. is the adjusted leak rate less than what the Airsense can compensate for (24 L/M) if you meet both of these then it does not really matter.

The lower the better, but working is working. 8-10 leak rate is okay and not effecting your treatment. If you get to zero, then good on you, if not don't sweat it too much

RE: Leaks are so confusing... - FrankNichols - 04-25-2016

(04-25-2016, 01:01 PM)PoolQ Wrote: if you have two traces on the SH leak chart the highest trace is the unadjusted rate (includes vent) and the lower trace is the actual calculated leak rate. Yes it "should" be at zero. There are only two requirements 1. whatever it is doing, can you sleep through it? 1. is the adjusted leak rate less than what the Airsense can compensate for (24 L/M) if you meet both of these then it does not really matter.

The lower the better, but working is working. 8-10 leak rate is okay and not effecting your treatment. If you get to zero, then good on you, if not don't sweat it too much

Thanks, I only have 1 trace. I am sort of OCD and just want to understand what I am seeing. I do have issues with large leaks and I am learning how to control them, while doing that I feel a burning desire to understand what I am looking at Smile

(04-25-2016, 12:50 PM)Crimson Nape Wrote:
(04-25-2016, 12:40 PM)FrankNichols Wrote: Now, I have been trying a P10 Nasal Mask for about a week. I set the mask to nasal in the clinical settings and every day it seems to hover around 10 (except for when it goes crazy because of my flopping around and/or I am mouth breathing).

The P10 is set to "Pillows" in the setting. The "Nasal" is for the mask that looks like a mini-FFM and covers only the nose.

I hope this may help.

Okay, now that is embarrassing! Smile

Thank you very much.

RE: Leaks are so confusing... - palerider - 04-25-2016

if your mask is sealed properly, and you're not having leaks, then the leak line will read zero.

anything above that, and you're experiencing excess leakage, even if you don't know where it's coming from.

and confirming, the P10 is a pillow mask... it's pretty handy, P(illow)10, N(asal)10, F(ullface)10.

example night with a P10 on a resmed machine:

RE: Leaks are so confusing... - FrankNichols - 04-25-2016

(04-25-2016, 01:47 PM)palerider Wrote: if your mask is sealed properly, and you're not having leaks, then the leak line will read zero.

anything above that, and you're experiencing excess leakage, even if you don't know where it's coming from.

and confirming, the P10 is a pillow mask... it's pretty handy, P(illow)10, N(asal)10, F(ullface)10.

example night with a P10 on a resmed machine:

Thank you, I should have noticed the letter - lol... And yes, I finally got my F10 down to "idling" at zero with a few minor bumps here and there. Now I want to see if I can do the same with the P10. It has been idling at 10, which is explained by the setting being wrong!

RE: Leaks are so confusing... - Snowbird47 - 04-26-2016

(04-25-2016, 01:01 PM)PoolQ Wrote: if you have two traces on the SH leak chart the highest trace is the unadjusted rate (includes vent) and the lower trace is the actual calculated leak rate. Yes it "should" be at zero. There are only two requirements 1. whatever it is doing, can you sleep through it? 1. is the adjusted leak rate less than what the Airsense can compensate for (24 L/M) if you meet both of these then it does not really matter.

I also only have ONE trace on the SH leak chart - why is that, and how do you get two (I can find no way to do that in preferences)?

RE: Leaks are so confusing... - PaytonA - 04-26-2016

To my knowledge the Resmed machines only give one trace because the machine reports only the estimated unintentional leak. Sleepyhead gives a dual leak trace for PR machines where the PR machine reports Total leak.

Best Regards,

PaytonA

RE: Leaks are so confusing... - palerider - 04-26-2016

(04-25-2016, 01:56 PM)FrankNichols Wrote: Now I want to see if I can do the same with the P10. It has been idling at 10, which is explained by the setting being wrong!

I'm afraid that doesn't explain anything.

some people believe (erroneously in my studied opinion) that the mask setting on the resmed machines has something to do with the excess leak calculation, however, when you look at the stated leak rates for the three masks in question:

f10: 22lpm@4cm, 41@12, 54@20
n10: 20lpm@4cm, 37@12, 49@20
p10: 20lpm@4cm, 37@12, 49@20

that theory kinda loses some credence. plus, even if there was something to it, the difference between n10 and p10 is... well, you see above.

evidence points to the mask setting being used the same way system one resistance is, to better compensate for the resistance to flow that the different masks have,
(1.0, 1.2, and 1.4cm @ 100lpm, respectively)

if this theory is right, setting the machine for nasal when you have a pillow mask would result in very slightly lower pressure at the mask than at the correct setting.

the mask type setting is also used in helping the machine detect mask off for the smartstart auto start/auto stop. the first time I put a p10 on my machine, I was dismayed that the machine didn't stop running when I took the mask off. after saying "ahah" and changing the setting from full to pillow, smart start works perfectly.

(04-26-2016, 09:03 AM)Snowbird47 Wrote:
Quote:if you have two traces on the SH leak chart the highest trace is the unadjusted rate (includes vent) and the lower trace is the actual calculated leak rate. Yes it "should" be at zero. There are only two requirements 1. whatever it is doing, can you sleep through it? 1. is the adjusted leak rate less than what the Airsense can compensate for (24 L/M) if you meet both of these then it does not really matter.

I also only have ONE trace on the SH leak chart - why is that, and how do you get two (I can find no way to do that in preferences)?

this is what happens when people post without figuring out what they're posting about, sadly.... confusion.

respironics machines report *total* leak rate, sleepyhead makes a guess as to what the excess leak rate is, and creates a second, lower trace, for respironics machines.

resmed machines report *excess* leak, so there's only one trace.

RE: Leaks are so confusing... - Mosquitobait - 04-26-2016

I'm trying to figure out how to tell if my leaks are from my mouth being open or if my Swift is simply leaking too much. How do you tell from the data?