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+--- Thread: SoClean & other CPAP cleaning machines (/Thread-SoClean-other-CPAP-cleaning-machines)
RE: electronic cleaners - hegel - 08-03-2020
I use something called Respify that generates ozone. You place your hose and humdifier and mask--all or any of these--in a soft bag and leave it. Done in 90 minutes. You can also add your machine if you wish.
Sure, soap and water will work. I find washing my hose is a bother, and I put it off. With Respify, it's not an issue. A DME told me "warm, moist environments are good places for mold or pathogens." Think of your shower. A cpap machine with humidifier definitely creates a warm, moist environment. The Respify addresses this.
People write with certainty that using a So Clean or something similar will void your warranty. Others will say 'it may void your warranty". I doubt it, but people here don't like these machines and make a lot of wild claims with no real backing to them. For example, above it was stated that 'studies show' that Ozone machines are no better than soap and water--and then continues with "they're completely useless". Umm, well, is hand washing completely useless? They do as well as hand washing, without the hassle. Etc. Etc.
I used a So Clean daily for about fifteen years over two machines and had no issues whatsoever.
I suggest looking at reviews for these machines to get a picture.
-p.s. most of the steady posters here are very knowledgeable and have given me and others great info and advice. Seriously, this site is a great resource. I happen to disagree about this one subject.
RE: electronic cleaners - upsman - 08-03-2020
(08-03-2020, 12:28 PM)staceyburke Wrote: It works well.
Does it really?
What makes you feel that it is working?
RE: electronic cleaners - upsman - 08-03-2020
(08-03-2020, 03:12 PM)hegel Wrote: I use something called Respify that generates ozone. You place your hose and humdifier and mask--all or any of these--in a soft bag and leave it. Done in 90 minutes. You can also add your machine if you wish.
Sure, soap and water will work. I find washing my hose is a bother, and I put it off. With Respify, it's not an issue. A DME told me "warm, moist environments are good places for mold or pathogens." Think of your shower. The Respify addresses this.
People write with certainty that using a So Clean or something similar will void your warranty. Others will say 'it may void your warranty". I doubt it, but people here don't like these machines and make a lot of wild claims with no real backing to them. For example, above it was stated that 'studies show' that Ozone machines are no better than soap and water--and then continues with "they're completely useless". Umm, well, is hand washing completely useless? They do as well as hand washing, without the hassle. Etc. Etc.
I used a So Clean daily for about fifteen years over two machines and had no issues whatsoever.
I suggest looking at reviews for these machines to get a picture.
Well, since you asked.
ResMed says they will void your warranty if damage is detected due to use of an ozone cleaner. Proof here.
Microsoft Word - Ozone Policy Initiative - Patient Letter AMER Eng_FrC.docx
None of the CPAP manufacturers recommend or even suggest using one of these devices for cleaning or sanitizing. If SoClean worked as it claims, wouldn't you think they would?
The FDA warns against using a "cleaning device" which uses ozone or UV. Proof here.
FDA Reminds Patients that Devices Claiming to Clean, Disinfect or Sanitize CPAP Machines Using Ozone Gas or UV Light Have Not Been FDA Authorized | FDA
Here's some independent research claiming these devices aren't necessary and do no more good than plain old soap and water. Proof here.
Do You Need a CPAP Cleaner Like SoClean or Lumin?
I would think that every hospital in the country would be using SoClean to sanitize. At $300 each, it sure beats the hell out of the millions they spend for their sanitizing. For these consumer devices to be as effective as claimed, they would need considerable more ozone concentration and exposure for much longer. Here's some information from an expert in the field.
SoClean CPAP Cleaner: Effective dose needed.
And one final note. But it's certainly not the the last of the available scientific data. SoClean is currently being sued for false claims of their cleaning and sanitizing procedure. The company and all the other SoClean fanbois can't offer one shred of data proving it actually works as described.
SoClean Lawsuit
RE: electronic cleaners - Barbara.Levitan - 08-03-2020
excellent, thoughtful answer. Thank you
RE: electronic cleaners - hegel - 08-03-2020
(08-03-2020, 03:45 PM)Barbara.Levitan Wrote: excellent, thoughtful answer. Thank you
Well, I suggest you read it again more skeptically. Look, I'm on my way out the door so I can't respond now, but, again, think through the points made and ask it they're as damning as portrayed. I think there's lot of rhetoric and nothing conclusive.
RE: electronic cleaners - BB63 - 08-03-2020
I can't testify as to the effectiveness, but I know it takes a massive number of O3 molecules to kill any pathogen. And, likely the same amount of Ozone in your household environment would kill you eventually.
Ever notice why the ads always say 'oxygen' instead of 'ozone'?
Ozone in any significant amount has a pungent odor, take a sniff of the air coming out of the Soclean.
I have worked inside of Ozone generators (large semiclosed rooms that contain serious O3 making hardware) and built them and repaired them. If you want to know exactly how many molecules of O3 the machine is generating, you can calculate it by measuring the power that the aluminum plates draw when it's running and the basic formula can be found online.But, I can testify as to the cost of putting a computer fan in a box and a few aluminum foil plates with a high voltage power supply. The guts, or the heart of the thing can't cost more than $25 dollars honestly and I do not exaggerate.
Save your money and pass the word to others.
AB
RE: electronic cleaners - upsman - 08-03-2020
(08-03-2020, 03:45 PM)Barbara.Levitan Wrote: excellent, thoughtful answer. Thank you
The decision is ultimately yours. If it’s worth $300 for a placebo device, and you feel like it will help you, then go for it.
Most people that have them will defend their decision to the death. Mainly because they have a hard time admitting they made a mistake buying it. But whatever their reasoning is, they have yet to supply any hard, scientific data that it does the “sanitizing” they claim it does.
As far as reviews, I have only seen positive things from owners mostly saying, “I love it”, or “it works great”, or “I never get respiratory infections anymore”. Never have I ever heard anybody say they sent the swab to the lab and it came back negative for any pathogens. They feel like it works, so that’s all they need.
Despite the misleading name, SoClean does not clean anything. You still need to hand wash your equipment with soap an water per the manufacturers instructions. Any further sanitizing is unnecessary. Nonetheless, people are easily duped by Captain Kirk and scare tactic advertising.
I’ve only presented some of the facts to help you make a decision. Good luck trying to interpret what will follow.
RE: electronic cleaners - Big Guy - 08-03-2020
I'll take clean over sanitized any day of the week.
RE: electronic cleaners - hegel - 08-04-2020
I'[m not going to spend time looking over the internet for stuff to defend ozone cleaners,. I did spend two minutes and found
--a grand total of 11 people (out of millions of users) over a two year period complained to the FDA about issues of coughing etc. after using a Soclean. I imagine a similar number of people complained about salt overdose to the FDA. The poster is using scare headlines to make a rhetorical point. We should all watch out for being abducted by aliens too, based on 11 reports of it happening.
--"a report that these products do no more good than plain ol soap and water". The devices are convenient and easy to use; they do more good if people put off cleaning their cpap parts daily or weekly for tubing.
--"I would think that every hospital in the country would be using SoClean to sanitize..." According to the following article written by a doctor, they do.
https://thedoctorweighsin.com/sleep-apnea-cpap/
RE: electronic cleaners - upsman - 08-04-2020
(08-04-2020, 10:09 AM)hege Wrote: --"a report that these products do no more good than plain ol soap and water". The devices are convenient and easy to use; they do more good if people put off cleaning their cpap parts daily or weekly for tubing.The misinformation here is what's really troubling.
So you feel that because people are generally lazy with regards to their cleaning routine with soap and water, that they should adopt an unproven, expensive method to replace it? I would really like to see the scientific evidence claiming that these consumer level ozone cleaners disinfect or sanitize in any way. The physical crud is what needs to be removed, and the only proven method for doing this is soap and water as all the manufacturers recommend.
Here are some facts from an expert in the field from a source I can't link to here because it's from another forum. Copied verbatim.
I will give you some facts, and I base the facts on the fact that I am the one who works in the industry of low temperature sterilzation
1. So Clean claims they use the same technology as is used in hospitals. LIE - the hospital ozone sterilizers cost upwards of 100,000.00 and require an O2 farm (a room with 15 to 20 tall O2 cylinders) to provide pure oxygen to extract the ozone. Besides the fact that SoClean lied about this, why on earth do you think a 300.00 device can even come close to what a 100,000.00 device can do. If SoClean was validated to sterilize or even high level disinfect, hospitals would have hundreds of them rather than the 100K devices. The SoClean just does not have the power to do what you think it does.
2. It does not clean. Period. You think it does, place a small dab of peanut butter in your hose and see if it is still there when the cycle is complete. You think this is not a good test, it is the basis of the VA soil test, the test that all medical cleaners must pass or they cannot claim to clean.
3. Amazon reviews - nothing but feel good stories. I have not read one Amazon review that can factually claim that the SoClean kills germs. If you know of one, please post the link because I would like to read it. What is the basis of a 5 star review when all they can go on is they like it? Meaningless.
4. I did own a SoClean on the 30 day trial, when I realized what it was vs. the claims they make I returned it under the 30 day return policy. Why not just get one of the room ozone fans and hang your mask in front of it, they would both do the same thing which is nothing.
I am just repeating the same thing I have typed here about a hundred times; for now on I will just say it is awesome, give the scammers your money, you will love it.
Yes, ozone is an effective method of killing pathogens. But not with this consumer-level device.
If the placebo effect is working for you, then you will believe anything your mind tells you. Even if it goes against real facts.