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2018 Resolution. 'Cure' myself of Sleep Apnea. - Mogy - 01-04-2018
I don't tolerate CPAP that well. Not compliant. I average 3.5hrs per night. I have decided my best course of action is to attempt to 'cure' myself. It seems to me that I am a good candidate, and I believe the numbers support my resolution.
They say that the best way to realize your resolutions/goals is to write them down, figure out the steps and tell someone.
I am a 60 year old male diagnosed with moderate OSA Feb 2016. 19.5AHI and 21.5RDI. 6.0ft tall and 215lbs at the time. Resmed ApneaLink Level3 in home test. 4hour test, 3hrs and 45min of test SpO2 below 90 percent.
Lost a bunch of weight and was retested early May at 185lbs. Had the tester for the weekend, so was able to do 3 tests.
Fri nights results:
Test for 4.5 hrs
AHI 13.8
RDI 15.9
HI 10.7
ODI 14.2
Average sat 91
Lowest sat 85
Baseline sat 94
20percent of time below 90
Sat night I only slept with the tester for 3.5 hrs. AHI of 6.
Sun night I completed a 4 hour test and left the data in the tester for the doctor. I haven't seen the results but I believe my RDI was 16.
My plan is to use weight loss, general exercises, and throat exercises to 'cure' myself.
As we know there are lots of weight loss studies. From the study below, typical AHI reduction of 26% with 10% reduction in body weight. That is what I got from my 30lb weight loss, 14% reduction of body weight. From 19.5AHI to 13.7AHI is a drop of 5.8 or approx 30% drop in AHI. I feel that I can get to 160lbs, a BMI of 22, close to the middle of normal weight. That is a further 13% of my body weight. Hopefully another 27% reduction in AHI or down to an AHI of 10.
There are also a bunch of studies on the effect of exercise on sleep apnea. From the meta-analysis study below a person can expect to drop their AHI by 6.7 after 12 weeks of exercise, or a drop of 32% of AHI. That is a drop of 3.2 from an AHI of 10. That gets me to an AHI of 6.8.
There aren't many studies that determine the effect of throat exercises on sleep apnea but I have the link below to the one I reference. It reports a drop in AHI of 39% for the participants.
39% of 6.8 is 2.6.
That gets me down to an AHI of 4.2. 'Cured!' I plan to do a retest in March to see how I'm doing.
There is probably some errors in logic that I'm sure will be pointed out but I feel good about this plan.
Weight loss:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11122588/
Exercise:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4216726
Throat exercises:
http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200806-981OC#_i17
RE: 2018 Resolution. 'Cure' myself of Sleep Apnea. - srlevine1 - 01-04-2018
Pay attention closely to this basic fact: correlation is not always causation. Therefore, considering your efforts will be multi-focal, it might be much wiser to discuss your proposed plan with your sleep physician, develop key metrics, and let an actual sleep test determine whether or not you are "cured." Also, there is the placebo effect which can mask long-term consequences with short-term "perceived" results.
When I was considering a medical career, my mentor, told me that you treat the patient, not the machine and proceeded to show me a fairly normal cardiogram produced by a heart that was not actually pumping blood. It is known as Pulseless Electrical Activity. The point being, do not become so invested in moving the needle on the dial so much as considering ALL of the interrelated health effects of your actions.
And, BTW, research has found that it is far better to concentrate on building productive habits rather than setting goals. More bang for the buck.
Best of luck with your experiment.
RE: 2018 Resolution. 'Cure' myself of Sleep Apnea. - HalfAsleep - 01-04-2018
I can’t figure out what exactly you’re asking or need? Could you maybe clarify?
You certainly aren’t getting much sleep or using the CPAP, otherwise you’d likely have way better numbers and get a whole lot more sleep. And you wouldn’t be turning data from nih studies into numbers that apply to your specific sleep breathing situation. And stretching them all around and making them additive as though the sum of all experimental successes will give you a cure. It won’t. If it were that numerically reliable, we’d all be doing it.
As I say, could you be specific about what you need from other posters? It doesn’t sound like you’re interested in arguments. It sounds like you’ve already decided on a course of action.
The alarm bell, red flag all over your entry: you’re not getting enough sleep, anywhere, it seems. Nor in the “sleep tests”: You might even be testing yourself when you’re awake.
RE: 2018 Resolution. 'Cure' myself of Sleep Apnea. - srlevine1 - 01-04-2018
(01-04-2018, 04:19 AM)HalfAsleep Wrote: I can’t figure out what exactly you’re asking or need? Could you maybe clarify?
You certainly aren’t getting much sleep or using the CPAP, otherwise you’d likely have way better numbers and get a whole lot more sleep. And you wouldn’t be turning data from nih studies into numbers that apply to your specific sleep breathing situation. And stretching them all around and making them additive as though the sum of all experimental successes will give you a cure. It won’t. If it were that numerically reliable, we’d all be doing it.
As I say, could you be specific about what you need from other posters? It doesn’t sound like you’re interested in arguments. It sounds like you’ve already decided on a course of action.
The alarm bell, red flag all over your entry: you’re not getting enough sleep, anywhere, it seems. Nor in the “sleep tests”: You might even be testing yourself when you’re awake.
Well-said!! Your point about using the research results is well-taken because most sample sizes are too small for generalized use due to multiple factors related to individual physiologies and co-morbidities.
RE: 2018 Resolution. 'Cure' myself of Sleep Apnea. - Walla Walla - 01-04-2018
I wonder if you have really given CPAP a chance. Your past posts have always leaned towards finding a way not to use CPAP. Maybe you should give it a honest try with a positive frame of mind. A first start might be posting a chart here and getting some input to make using the CPAP more comfortable.
Weight loss can improve your AHI. I've been on a diet also and have lost 40lbs. My AHI has dropped about 7cm. I tend to lose weight from the neck first. However I don't think for a minute that it will cure my Sleep Apnea. At some point the weight loss will stop providing benefits and all the throat exercises can only do so much.
Hey I'm all for trying something to improve your condition. It would be wise though to put more effort into using your CPAP and getting that dialed in. You don't know if the exercise will come to anything but you do know that CPAP has been proven to treat Sleep Apnea.
I recommend continuing on the weight loss and the throat exercises but also using your CPAP full time. If and when the day comes that it's been proven you no longer have Sleep Apnea than and only than would I stop using it.
RE: 2018 Resolution. 'Cure' myself of Sleep Apnea. - kiwii - 01-04-2018
(01-04-2018, 04:19 AM)HalfAsleep Wrote: ...As I say, could you be specific about what you need from other posters? It doesn’t sound like you’re interested in arguments. It sounds like you’ve already decided on a course of action.
I think he is 'telling us' as a way of ensuring success: "They say that the best way to realize your resolutions/goals is to write them down, figure out the steps and tell someone."
Mogy, HalfAsleep makes a really good point about your sleep time. Do you attribute the lack of sleep to problems using xPAP? Trying to understand what it is that is cutting into your sleep time so badly.
RE: 2018 Resolution. 'Cure' myself of Sleep Apnea. - Mogy - 01-04-2018
Thanks to everyone who responded.
I am at work and can't take the time to give proper responses just yet. Mainly I use 'how I feel' to determine how my therapy is working. Most days I feel good to very good. Some room for improvement. I have found that how I feel correlates more closely to my weight to how much time I use my machine on a given night.
I sleep well every night and wake up refreshed. Typically I sleep 3 or 4 hours with my APAP and 3 or 4 without. Just because I am not using my machine does not mean I don't get restorative sleep. Currently my apnea is mild.
RE: 2018 Resolution. 'Cure' myself of Sleep Apnea. - MikeBear - 01-04-2018
Easiest thing in the world to "cure" yourself of sleep apnea: Just stop sleeping, and stay awake 24/7.
I was diagnosed over 20 years ago, in my mid 30's. At the time I weighed around 180lbs, 5'-9" male, blood pressure of 180/130 (due to the apnea) but had sinus issues all my life up to then. I had RF turbinate reductions, septoplasty, and a UPPP surgery. They didn't cure me, though I rarely snore anymore. The septoplasty also helped resolve life-long yearly serious sinus infections. So they were worth the pain and recovery I went through.
A few years later I got real serious with walking for exercise. Over a weeks time, I built up to, and walked a total of 58 MILES. I did this over 1 year. My weight went down to the mid 150's. It still didn't cure my apnea. I had a 15' ladder fall with a running chainsaw, and landed in a sitting position. I lost 1/2" in height instantly, and crushed many of my lower lumbar disc's. Could Barely walk for two years just as a normal daily thing, much less as many miles I had been putting on. POOF, the weight started coming back over that time.
I finally found a mask that worked very well for me (Mirage Swift II), and made peace with my c-pap machine. It's now 20 years old, still works perfectly, but is a dumb brick and only runs on one pressure. Since I found this website a month or so ago, I have purchased a ResMed Airsense Autoset machine, and am working with my data to fine tune everything. It's almost 100% like starting over from SCRATCH as a new person to cpap therapy, as it handles things very differently then my original machine. I'm also trying several different new tech masks.
However, I LIKE staying alive and breathing, and I like lowering the odds to NOT having a heart attack or more likely a stroke.
Cpap therapy can be hard to get used to. Cpap therapy can be hard to keep up with changes in technology and modalities. Cpap therapy can be a bit expensive. BUT, it can also be literally a case of life and death, or spending your remaining time after a stroke as a near vegetable.
My suggestion: Make PEACE with your condition, and DECIDE in your brain that you WILL take the time and WHATEVER it takes to make cpap therapy work for YOU. Just as strongly as you can. Not doing it, and ending up dead or worse is a SELFISH decision for the rest of your family. That may include weight loss, some surgery, exercises, etc. BUT, it also means you stay on the machine until a doctor says you can come off of it.
Good luck!
RE: 2018 Resolution. 'Cure' myself of Sleep Apnea. - kiwii - 01-04-2018
(01-04-2018, 11:38 AM)Mogy Wrote: ...I sleep well every night and wake up refreshed. Typically I sleep 3 or 4 hours with my APAP and 3 or 4 without. Just because I am not using my machine does not mean I don't get restorative sleep. Currently my apnea is mild.
Ah, I see. I will be very interested to see the results of your retest in March. Btw, congratulations on the weight loss. That shows a good track record of sticking to your commitments.
Any idea of what is waking you up after 3-4 hours? Uninterrupted sleep would be beneficial, and you may find that you feel even better.
RE: 2018 Resolution. 'Cure' myself of Sleep Apnea. - OpalRose - 01-04-2018
Mogy,
Interesting...I was reading some of your prior posts since you joined the forum, but couldn't find any instance of you ever posting your data here. Of course, I may have missed it. We may have been able to help and still can if you wish. Just post some data, even if it is only 4 hours of sleep.
I really commend you for trying to lose more weight and exercising. It takes a very determined person to achieve those goals.
As far as a "cure" for sleep apnea, I've not heard of one yet! Some folk do have improvement with their AHI after weight loss and find that they can use lower pressures.
I wish you luck, but remember that their are many "thin" folk that have sleep apnea.