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+--- Thread: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia (/Thread-CPAP-use-for-Coronavirus-mitigation-severe-pneumonia)
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia - Tubaman - 04-01-2020
Mr. Stom: My bad. I guess if I had spent more time observing the anti-asphyxiation 'flapper' valve's action while breathing in and out with the mask on my face, I would have observed what you explained to me (with a hose and no PAP I would o.d. on CO2). You are definitely correct in your assessment of using a hose on the face mask. I am now left with two options:
1) Use mask without valve and maybe a thin filter over the hole;
2) Use mask with valve (no filters);
Either way it appears CO2 build-up would occur in varying levels inside the mask without any PAP. It's probably best that I stay at home and out of the public except for quick trips to pick up groceries selected online from Walmart or other grocery stores in our area. At 82 my survival chances, and my wife's, are zip if I get infected.
My other question about insects (mosquitoes, etc.) infecting us: Mr. Melman stated "...there is no scientific evidence that it can be spread by mosquitoes or other insects.". What that tells me is nobody knows what might happen at this time and it probably has never been tested. In a state like Minnesota with a very heavy mosquito infestation every year, I have a deep concern. Since mosquitoes spread West Nile virus I would suspect that coronavirus (another virus) spread by mosquitoes may also be possible. We probably won't find out until too late when folks start getting infected and no other reason can be found.
Thank you Mr. Stom & Mr. Melman!
Carl
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia - Osiris357 - 04-01-2020
Looks like the Mercedes/AMG F1 team has figured it out...https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/mercedes-amg-f1-ventilator-cpap-covid-19/
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia - Nuitari - 04-01-2020
(04-01-2020, 07:54 PM)Tubaman Wrote: My other question about insects (mosquitoes, etc.) infecting us: Mr. Melman stated "...there is no scientific evidence that it can be spread by mosquitoes or other insects.". What that tells me is nobody knows what might happen at this time and it probably has never been tested. In a state like Minnesota with a very heavy mosquito infestation every year, I have a deep concern. Since mosquitoes spread West Nile virus I would suspect that coronavirus (another virus) spread by mosquitoes may also be possible. We probably won't find out until too late when folks start getting infected and no other reason can be found.
I would manage mosquitoes whether or not they are involved in coronavirus, if only to avoid all of the other diseases they spread.
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia - rapeetz - 04-01-2020
While roaming the internet while sheltering in place today, this jumped out at me:
https://www.coronavirustoday.com/cpap-machines-treat-sleep-apnea
Sorry, guess I can't post links unless I have more posts.
Hope it helps.
Bob
Moderator note: Link has been fixed
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia - 70sSanO - 04-01-2020
(04-01-2020, 07:54 PM)Tubaman Wrote: 1) Use mask without valve and maybe a thin filter over the hole;
2) Use mask with valve (no filters);
Either way it appears CO2 build-up would occur in varying levels inside the mask without any PAP.
I put together a mask using a Quattro FX FFM and a respirator cartridge filter (I gave a link earlier).
There was some discussion on CO2 buildup inside the mask, so I decided to test it out with a 5 minute spin on my wind trainer. Didn’t pass out.
That said, you’ll need to be confident with whatever you come up with.
John
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia - cryonix - 04-02-2020
(04-01-2020, 03:45 PM)geauxdbl Wrote: I'm going to ask again, after reading cryonix' translation of that Breathing Project document:
They're working really hard to create a mechanical device to attach to a CPAP machine that will allow for IPAP of 20 and EPAP of 6
Isn't this just reinventing the wheel? Bilevel machines exist in large quantities in the world and do this already. Why aren't we just using them?
It really looks to me that the devices with their modification are intended to be used in the clinical field in hospital to treat patients with respiratory insufficience/paralysis (as a result of COVID pneumonia or medication (eg. Opioids)). They are working with highest pressure on a quick official medical approval/certification. IMHO a BIPAP device for apnea treatment at home is always an assisted breathing - but this may be wrong.
Maybe it is really intended to ventilate patients without own spontaneous breathing with its external rhythm/clock by replacing breathing musculus.
(pls excuse my terrible eglish)
Cryonix
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia - DeepBreathing - 04-02-2020
(04-01-2020, 11:31 PM)rapeetz Wrote: While roaming the internet while sheltering in place today, this jumped out at me:
https://www.coronavirustoday.com/cpap-machines-treat-sleep-apnea
Thanks for posting Bob. That article doesn't really move the game on a lot, unfortunately. It's posing a question (that we have all been asking) without answering it.
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia - Sleeprider - 04-02-2020
While most of this thread deals with CPAP solutions to assist individuals, there is a very standard therapy approach called postural drainage, that involves laying on inclined surfaces and using gravity and palpitation, clapping or vibration to remove mucus and fluids. I think this is something that can be combined with the therapies suggested in this thread. Maybe this belongs in its own thread. I think this approach is of equal or greater important to keep someone from accumulating dangerous level s of fluid in the lungs. https://www.myshepherdconnection.org/respiratory/postural-drainage-clapping
Introduction
Postural drainage is a method for clearing the lungs by changing position. It allows gravity to help drain the mucous to the top of the lungs where it can be removed more easily. It can be an important way to prevent pneumonia. For example, as soon as a person shows signs of getting a cold or has flu-like feelings, postural drainage and increased fluids should be started to prevent more serious lung infections.
This method and the specific positions should be discussed with the doctor first. Do not do this if it makes breathing harder or if it affects the heart rate.
Clapping and vibration may be added to the postural drainage routine. This will help loosen the mucous by shaking it loose. It helps the mucous move from the small air sacs to the larger airways where it can be coughed or suctioned out. Clapping and vibration are done when the person is placed in certain postural drainage positions.
How do I do postural drainage?
![[Image: clap1.jpg]](https://www.myshepherdconnection.org/docs/clap1.jpg)
For best results, postural drainage, clapping and vibration should be done regularly in order to prevent serious infections like pneumonia. This is also a good time for a person to do deep breathing exercises or incentive spirometry. All of these practices help keep the lungs healthy. Keep in mind that these positions are the "ideal." Due to the type of injury or spasms, there may be limitations on positioning. Do the best that you can.Step 1: Feel the chest.
The chest should be felt to see where the mucous is located. For example, you may feel "rattling" in the upper parts of the chest or only in the back. Each person and each day may be different. Mucous can move around, so it is important that you check each time you do this.
Step 2: Position correctly.
Place the person in the position that relates best to the location of the mucous. See below.
Congestion in the lower back part of the lungs:
To drain the lungs in the lower back, the person should lie face down (prone) with the hips propped up with pillows. The hips should be propped up about 18-20 inches as shown below. If using a hospital bed, it is also possible to lower the head of the bed while the hips are propped. Check
with your doctor first before lowering the bed.
Congestion in the bottom front part of the lungs:
To drain the bottom front parts of the lungs, the person should lie on his/her back with the hips propped up on pillows. The hips should be propped up about 18 -20 inches.
If using a hospital bed, it is also possible to lower the head of the bed while the hips are propped. Check with your doctor first before lowering the bed.
Congestion in the upper front part of the lungs:
To drain the upper front part of the lungs, the person should be sitting up and leaning back.
Congestion in the upper back part of the lungs:
To drain the upper back part of the lungs, the person should be sitting up and leaning slightly forward.
Congestion in the bottom parts of the lungs:
To drain the bottom part of the right lung, lay flat on your left side. Proper pillow placement is important to protect the skin. The hips should be
propped up about 18 –20 inches. If using a hospital bed, it is also possible to lower the head of the bed while the hips are propped. Check with your doctor first before lowering the bed.
To drain the bottom part of the left lung, lay flat on your right side. Position yourself as in the photo, but rest on your right side.
Step 3: Let the lungs drain
Stay in the prescribed position for 15 - 20 minutes. You may use more than one position depending on where the chest congestion is located. For example, there may be congestion in the upper front and upper back parts of the lungs. In that case, have the person sit up and lean forward for 10 minutes and then lean backwards slightly for another 10 minutes. It is helpful to do breathing exercises during this drainage time. If a person has to be in more than one position, it is important to help the person cough or suction in between each position. For example, after the first position, the person may need an assist cough before being placed in the second position.
Step 4: Perform clapping if needed.
How do I do clapping?
Clapping may be added to the postural drainage. It is used to loosen the mucous by shaking it loose. It helps the mucous move from the small air sacs to the larger airways where it can be coughed or suctioned out.
Clapping is done when the person is already in a specific postural drainage position. Never clap over the spine, kidneys or lower part of the back on each side, or on the breasts or stomach. Always stop clapping while the person is coughing.
Step 1: Cup the hands
The hands should be held in a cup shape formed by the fingers and the thumb.
Step 2: Begin Clapping
Keep in mind that the person should already be positioned from postural drainage.
Clap gently with the cupped hand for 3 – 5 minutes over the congested area. This should be done with a smooth rhythm. Remember to stop if the person starts coughing. Refer to the following positions and clap over the highlighted areas of the chest.
![[Image: clapA.jpg]](https://www.myshepherdconnection.org/docs/clapA.jpg)
Position A
Clap from below the shoulder blades to about 3 inches above the bottom of the ribs.
Do not clap over the backbone or kidneys.
![[Image: clapB.jpg]](https://www.myshepherdconnection.org/docs/clapB.jpg)
Position B
Clap from below the nipple line to the bottom of the ribs. Do not clap over the stomach.
![[Image: clapc.jpg]](https://www.myshepherdconnection.org/docs/clapc.jpg)
Position C
Clap directly under the collarbone.
How do I do vibration?
Vibration may also be used to loosen mucous. You can do this as follows:
Step 1 Place one hand flat on the congested part of the chest and the other on the top of the first hand.
Step 2 Have the person take in a breath slowly and deeply.
Step 3 Have the person breathe OUT slowly through pursed lips.
Step 4 While the person is breathing OUT, vibrate your hands on the congested part of the chest. Vibrate the area at least 3 times, then assist cough the person. When vibrating, it is important to keep the muscles of the arms and hands tense. Apply pressure downward and vibrate hands and arms.
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia - mafiawfb - 04-02-2020
Disclaimer - medical information is merely information - not advice. If users need medical advice, they should consult a doctor or other appropriate medical professional.
COVID-19 Guideline Based Ventilation Strategies
Cannot post video links because I'm newbie.
Hope this information is useful.
Stay safe, stay health.
Video link inserted by Moderator
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia - Maggie - 04-02-2020
(03-26-2020, 11:41 AM)Johnboy Wrote: Whilst I don’t live in the USA I was watching CNN this afternoon ( think that Governor Cuomo is really outstanding with his honesty and transparency - some could learn!). The CNN Chief Medical (Gupta ?) advisor spoke about the lack of ventilators in NYS and mentioned that CPAP machines are being considered as a bridge between nothing and medical grade ventilation. Maybe this will be a game changer for this thread as equipment manufacturers put their minds and resources to it.
A local, family-owned company that is involved, internationally, in safety and was already designated Essential, is now, in addition, officially designated for Health manufacturing and has designed and had approved a reusable face shield. They expect to be in full production of several thousand a day by tomorrow - all going well! It means some of the employees (my son included) are still working - very hard! - and the company has behaved impeccably in every way - offering temporary lay off to non-essential workers so that they can stay at home with their families, sanitizing in every way possible, boosting morale, 'keeping the distance' by conference calling and using larger spaces for unavoidable interactions. etc.
There must be thousands of small companies all over the world gearing up as fast as they can to help. Let's not let the 'big guns' have all the glory - there are plenty of foot soldiers doing their best too!