(03-03-2021, 07:37 PM)DaveL Wrote: Help please---what youtube video?

(03-03-2021, 04:22 AM)2SleepBetta Wrote: My uses of 50I output? I glance at how it correlates with flow rate and motion disturbances, and note the durations of drops and the nightly average. I wouldn't miss it much if it quit now (accelerometers supplanted its little help). Desperate with high AHI and long OA's I got a 50I shortly after I began APAP. 

(11-28-2020, 10:29 PM)GuppyDRV Wrote: I use the Oura and the Fitbit Sense. They aliegn almost lock step which was not the case with prior versions of the Fitbit. 

GuppyDRV,

I , 2SleepBetta, inserted italicized comments between youir comments. Thanks for posting and for your affirming attaboy below my second post in this thread.  There's no disputing that a persistent and deeply low SpO2 can be overlooked even though it is a First Thing to attack, as we and others discover on our own and eventuallly do attack as we work on AHI.

Re your Oura and Fitbit Sense, I only recognize those as brand IDs and know just a bit about their uses. If there is additional specific model ID for devices you use, please share those. I may add one or both to my sleep device collection and would want to get the model that either is highly recommended or seen as quite satisfactory by a knowledgeable user. Too often the latest, highest priced models are not as good as their predecessors, though they will be more expensive and will likely offer some new minor enhancement.

The Oura has been put up against PSG and does really well. Both use many metrics to register sleep stages. The one I haven’t heard mentioned here is HRV.....worth a read if you’ve never heard of the concept.


Are there consumer level HRV devices? Do they output info to CSV  or TEXT files? I' believe I have seen that HRV metrics reveal a lot about health and life expectancy, but haven't seen mention of sleep stage detection.

The Peripheral Arterial Tone signal (PAT), as detected and interpreted, e.g.,, by Itamar's WatchPAT  may be equal to or better at detecting and scoring arousals than an EEG which must be interpreted by a sleep lab technician. I'll make note to check out use of HRV for sleep stage sensing and reporting; thanks for the pointer. Cost of the WatchPat device (with? without? software) the last time I looked was approx. $2,750--way out of line for most of us. (But I'm aware of one knowledgeable sleeper who paid half or more of that amount for a highly sophisticated Nonin HR and SpO2 sensing and reporting system. I think he input the system data into a ResMed blower. 

I've toyed with the idea of requesting a WatchPat sleep study to run concurrent with my own devices for comparison; those tests, I believe are reasonably priced. It crossed my mind to  post and ask whether there would be any interest in forming a group to buy a WatchPat to share on some basis, maybe donate it to AB for sharing (the idea is fraught with legal, medical, and licensing complications, no doubt). Again, those most interested in such collaboration, if any, would be UARS sufferers with their low AHI but always unrestful sleep (maybe PLM and RLS sufferers would be interested, too). 

I also use a Wellue O2 ring. Best device I’ve ever bought. If you think CPAP in anyway is not giving you the results you’re expecting, get one of these. The biggest lesson for me is that even with a sub 1 AHI my O2 chart can still look like garbage with desaturations bellow 90 for 40-50 minutes at a time. Yet this would be considered treated by most Sleep Doctors. The answer to the question you’re thinking was positionally induced flow limitations. Set the flags right in OSCAR and you’ll see. Added a soft cervical collar and charts look like a flatline now. Would have never known without the Wellue O2 ring.

Again, our sharing, attentiveness, interest, motivation and the right collection of gadgets can lead to simple solutions and inexpensive betterments  (collars) we might not have discovered nor tried without our good information from basic devices and ApneaBoard.

Deep sleep doubled and I feel the best I have ever felt as a result. If you can afford the technology than get some. Might also change your mind on drinking close to bedtime!

Here you put your finger on my current state of denial about self-impaired sleep and need for better sleep hygiene: I have a relatively good sensor, the Dreem 2, telling me I'm Deep Sleep deficient (an understatement because the D2 is blind to short arousals). Two to three things contribute to that: irregular sleep hours, late screen time and too much time thinking about the post WWII trajectory of our country (its precipitous decline) and the little I can do (and have done) to flatten or raise it for my line's future. At least, as in your closing sentence, and thanks to prodding of my sleep monitoring devices, I have switched to decaf for coffee after 1600 hr , got some blue blocker glasses  and done some post 1000 hr screen color adjustments. My 0.1 AHI sleep has improved, even to getting some Deep Sleep.

That final sentence of yours characterizes most all my past year's thinking about unflagged and unscored breathing impairments in sleep --specifically, our unflagged arousals  and  labored breathing (due to excessively negative esophageal pressures). How can we laymen discover our kind of more subtle problems, what can we do about them, and what tools and flow rate curve signs are there to help us?  I still try to wring more out of the Dreem 2 sleep stage curve and  may probe the HRV and WatchPat matters. A first (and still elusive) goal was to provide a simple set of illustrations of  flow rate curve disturbances that are typical of (at least my) breathing disturbances that cause arousals. With such a start of a taxonomy of arousal signatures (primarily in the flow rate curve), I could devisea self-scoring system to evaluate whether certain one-at-a -time life style, Rx, food group or other change actually does benefit my sleep and might help others. But hope of recognizing arousals without benefit of higher resolution EEG or other sensors is dimming.

Hope this helps.

GuppyDRV

(11-20-2020, 12:45 AM)Fourkidletts Wrote: Hey all!  I did a search for this, but nothing recent came up for me, so since the holidays are coming, I thought I'd ask.  

I'm looking at devices (under $100) that give you feedback on the quality of your sleep, as well as o2 and heartrate stats, with also some fitness tracking functions.  Anyone have one they like?  It seems the pulse ox portion of these, if they are on the wrist, aren't super accurate.  There's also the ring one called Oura, and something that goes on your thumb?  What is the recent data on these?  Any of them worth getting for tracking sleep info?

• the spo2 is well measured but only every 30min during sleep, so useless.
  
• The sleep stage tracking is completely wrong. (woke up at 7:00 and the watch told me I was in deep sleep at 9:30)
  
• Heart rate tracking works well except when running
  
• Breath tracking no corelations with cpap.
  

• the spo2 is useless too, just a chart of the variation rate.
  
• The sleep stage tracking seem to be good. (lot's of correlation with my cpap records)
  
• Heart rate tracking is worse
  
• lots of bugs