[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - Printable Version +- Apnea Board Forum - CPAP | Sleep Apnea (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums) +-- Forum: Public Area (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Forum-Public-Area) +--- Forum: Main Apnea Board Forum (https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Forum-Main-Apnea-Board-Forum) +--- Thread: [News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS (/Thread-News-RECALL-THREAD-IMPORTANT-PHILIPS-DREAMSTATION-SYSTEM-ONE-USERS) Pages:
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - btreger - 07-05-2021 (07-05-2021, 01:15 PM)WakeUpTime Wrote: Having one all-encompassing thread when their are so many related subjects will be a challenge for viewers to go through. Ideally, this one general thread might have its own group of sub-threads, if it's indeed true (from a previous HME magazine U.S. survey) that as many as 60% of end-users may be using Philips (now recalled) systems. If that's still true today, it's a massive shock to the industry where 60% of PAP users are immediately instructed to halt using their PAP machines, and without being provided with an immediate future "fix" or replacement, for a medical device that's deemed necessary for most users. There are indeed DME's in Europe I found after doing a small search. They seem to work like ours in some respects. You do need a prescription, does not require a specialist, your regular doctor can write it. They do not seem to be covered by insurance, but it appears you would have to purchase them yourself. On one site I found a least two of the recalled Philips machines RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - WakeUpTime - 07-05-2021 (07-05-2021, 02:19 PM)Psikic Wrote: I contacted my Dr, who initially told me to discontinue use of the machine. We're very grateful that you related your experience, as there are likely thousands of others (silently) going through similar experiences at this moment. You've highlight several areas that are significant parts of the recall, that Philips has not directly addressed: - compensation for the out-of-pocket costs associated with the immediate replacement of the end-users defective device (new machine cost, possible DME service costs for setup and re-training, etc.) - medical claims for any previous or on-going use due to the possible harmful effects as a result of ingestion of the defective foam particles - possible liability due to corporate negligence in not notifying Philips end-users many months (or years) earlier, prior to Philips getting reports of foam issues and re-designing the foam in the DreamStation 2 - new service fees associated with a possible replacement to our defective Philips machines (setup fees for the refurbished or replaced system, etc.) Philips merely committing to a long-term future "fix" to the defective and harmful foam is absolutely insufficient for a medical device proven to be medical necessary for its users. RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - Psikic - 07-05-2021 (07-05-2021, 02:19 PM)Psikic Wrote: The Dr gave me a new prescription right away and I bought one out of pocket (and for less than the original insurance CoPay on the DreamStation!) and it has been working great. I forgot to mention -- the new DME loaded the existing pressures for me on the AirSense, which were working well with the DreamStation. However, the pressures on the AirSense were NOT ENOUGH. I had to manually increase the pressures (from 10-12 on the Dreamstation) to (11.6-13.6) on the AirSense because the AirSense for some reason does not blow as much air. This is after making sure the mask type and hose type were set properly. I really do hope that Philips compensates me for the out of pocket ResMed, but in all honesty, I don't care. If they want to fix my old DreamStation, I'll be happy to keep it around as a backup, but I don't plan to continue using it unless the ResMed needs to go in for service or something. I'll be perfectly fine to continue using the new ResMed and leave Philips behind. For that matter, I don't plan to buy any Philips dental products, or even Philips light bulbs anymore. RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - WakeUpTime - 07-05-2021 (07-05-2021, 03:27 PM)Psikic Wrote: I find it absolutely incredible that government agencies (so far) are accepting as a "sufficient response" Philips plan to provide repaired-systems (many months from now) that will be merely used as backup systems - after having been immediately forced (for medical and product-defect reasons) into the re-purchase of another PAP system. This is not equivalent to a recall of a defective toothbrush, yet its being treated as such. This is more like having a recall on a defective pacemaker, where a person is required to immediately get it replaced with an alternative product. Would it be "sufficient" for the manufacturer of a pacemaker
that is known to have disintegrating and cancer-causing compounds
to provide a refurbished unit in 3-6 months?
How is it that government agencies are not treating this neglectful and insufficient corporate response with the seriousness that it deserves? At the moment, almost all of the media is merely reporting the content of the Philips recall, based on the Philips corporate announcement. Almost no one in the media is reporting on the total practical implications of the recall on the medically-dependent end-users. Philips has allocated a $170 cost to each defective yet,
but many users will be out-of-pocket 3-10X that amount
through no fault of their own.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - btreger - 07-05-2021 (07-05-2021, 03:46 PM)WakeUpTime Wrote: I find it absolutely incredible that government agencies (so far) are accepting as a "sufficient response" Philips plan to provide repaired-systems (many months from now) that will be merely used as backup systems - after having been immediately forced (for medical and product-defect reasons) into the re-purchase of another PAP system.Excellent points. I guess it would asking too much to think that now that the FDA is involved, they would not wait another 12 years to go through this process again, and would fully inspect, and certify the new DremStation II product line now. These are some of the languages in one of the pending Class Action Law Suits: First I must state that I am not for or against these suits. Everyone on this thread must make that decision for themselves. “This important class-action lawsuit seeks to recover all damages suffered by consumers who purchased the recalled CPAP devices and have Philips replace them free of charge with safe and effective devices. It is outrageous and we look forward to fighting on their behalf to obtain a resolution with Philips that provides damages for their economic and personal injuries. RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - WakeUpTime - 07-05-2021 Not wanting to risk violating any forum rules, I searched your quoted last sentence to find the law firm in that one (out of several) class action lawsuits. It's extremely gratifying to finally here the terms "economic" damages (in addition to personal health). It's very appropriate, and something that Philips absolutely can't dispute or minimize. Quote: RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - qwerty42 - 07-05-2021 (07-03-2021, 05:03 AM)qwerty42 Wrote: Interesting -- thanks for the extra info. Here's a diagram I made in case anyone's interested. The only sensor that would be affected by cutouts to remove the foam is the one I labeled #2 -- but it's a very important one, unfortunately. Cutouts downstream of it (meaning further along the path toward the blower intake) won't change its readings, but cutouts upstream of it (toward the inlet filter) will cause it to read erroneous values. Hi all, your local mechanical & aerospace engineer here. I took my Dreamstation apart today and now have definitive info about my earlier guesses:
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - S.Thompson - 07-05-2021 qwerty42... YOU are flat out awesome. Plain simple truth dude. Many thanks. RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - qwerty42 - 07-05-2021 (07-05-2021, 09:38 PM)S.Thompson Wrote: qwerty42... YOU are flat out awesome. Plain simple truth dude. Many thanks. Thanks, and you are very welcome! Glad to be able to help with this whole saga. RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS - cathyf - 07-05-2021 qwerty42 -- having done this teardown, how do you think they got the foam in there? If you were going to engineer a process to remove the foam and replace it with a different material, how would you do it? I wonder if you could use the tools of laproscopic surgery to get the old foam out and new foam in by going through the air intake/outlets? Phillips' complete passivity through all of this is just astonishing to me. The engineer in me would want to be figuring out how to re-calibrate the machines for foam-free operation, at least. As a legal strategy, that would be an interesting demand for the class-action lawyers to bring. Demand that Phillips reprogram the machine of all the users who have removed their foam and do it NOW. |