Hello Guest, Welcome to Apnea Board !
As a guest, you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.
To post a message, you must create a free account using a valid email address.

or Create an Account


New Posts   Today's Posts

[CPAP] Can CPAP Machine Detect REM Sleep?
#1
Can CPAP Machine Detect REM Sleep?
I'm new to CPAP.  I've had my ResMed AirSense 10 machine for about two weeks now and am not feeling any better yet.  I'm significantly more tired and foggy headed since using the CPAP than when I used to only use my mouth guard appliance, even though the machine says I'm doing fantastic.  My daily average AHIs are usually around 1 and seldom above 2.  I should be doing great, right?  Not.

The talked with the doctor today, who reviewed my original sleep study results and my daily CPAP results.  She told me that during the first part of my sleep study, without a CPAP (and without my mouth guard), I had absolutely no REM sleep and severe OSAs (I think it was 48 or something).  She further said that for people who have been used to not getting any REM sleep, it can take quite a while for the body to readjust to getting REM sleep when using the CPAP.  She thinks this is the most likely cause of my feeling even more dragged out all day than usual; especially since my machine reports that I'm doing great.  

BTW, I just downloaded and started using the SleepyHead app to view the data from the SD card myself.  The machine automatically reports my data to the doctor and my DME via cell connection each day.

I have three questions:

1. Does what the doctor said about taking a significant amount of time to get used to having REM sleep make sense?

2. Can periods of REM sleep be determined from the data reported by the CPAP machine?  If so, how would I see that?  I'm asking this because, after what the doctor said, I'd like to know if I am successfully having REM sleep now and how much.

3. The SleepyHead program has two User Flags that I can be set to trigger when flow is restricted a certain percent for a certain amount of time.  My UF #2 is currently set at 50% for 8 minutes.  Even though the data shows that I only have a few Clear Airway, Obstructive Apneas, or Hypopneas per night, it does show that I have quite a bit more UF #2 events.  I've seen some discussions/questions where some have wondered whether those "mini-apneas" might account for not getting enough good sleep and the resulting fatigue.  Are the two UF flags something that the doctor sees in the data that is wirelessly sent to them or are they simply derived flags deduced in the SleepyHead software and not something that is specifically flagged in the data sent to the doctor?  And are those something that the doctor would be likely to give any credence to anyway?
Post Reply Post Reply
#2
RE: Can CPAP Machine Detect REM Sleep?
Welcome

1.  I found it took some  time to get used to my "modified" sleeping environment.  Having stuff stuck to your face feels unnatural at first.  Now, I don't even notice it.  Your body will adapt.  Everybody is different in the length of time to acclimate to the CPAP.

2.  To determine REM sleep, you will need an EEG.  The CPAP can't derive sleep stages based on air flow and pressures.

3. The UF flags stand for User Defined Flags.  I believe they are set to 8 seconds and not 8 minutes (480 seconds).  An event is usually based on a duration of 10 seconds or longer.  You may wish to increase these to 10 seconds to match.  The transmitted data will not contain this data.  In fact, the data sent via the wireless feature is minimal at best.

Please review the links below for understanding SleepyHead data and how to post some of your daily results here.
Crimson Nape
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com
___________________________________
Useful Links -or- When All Else Fails:
The Guide to Understanding OSCAR
OSCAR Chart Organization
Attaching Images and Files on Apnea Board
Apnea Helpful Tips

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
Post Reply Post Reply
#3
RE: Can CPAP Machine Detect REM Sleep?
Hi SpiritusTabula,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
CPAP therapy can take time to get used to, and it may take a while before you notice improvements, but just stick with it, it gets better over time.
Good luck on your CPAP journey, hang in there for more responses to your post.
trish6hundred
Post Reply Post Reply
#4
RE: Can CPAP Machine Detect REM Sleep?
(09-20-2017, 08:24 PM)SpiritusTabula Wrote: I'm new to CPAP.  I've had my ResMed AirSense 10 machine for about two weeks now and am not feeling any better yet.  I'm significantly more tired and foggy headed since using the CPAP than when I used to only use my mouth guard appliance, even though the machine says I'm doing fantastic.  My daily average AHIs are usually around 1 and seldom above 2.  I should be doing great, right?  Not.

The talked with the doctor today, who reviewed my original sleep study results and my daily CPAP results.  She told me that during the first part of my sleep study, without a CPAP (and without my mouth guard), I had absolutely no REM sleep and severe OSAs (I think it was 48 or something).  She further said that for people who have been used to not getting any REM sleep, it can take quite a while for the body to readjust to getting REM sleep when using the CPAP.  She thinks this is the most likely cause of my feeling even more dragged out all day than usual; especially since my machine reports that I'm doing great.  

BTW, I just downloaded and started using the SleepyHead app to view the data from the SD card myself.  The machine automatically reports my data to the doctor and my DME via cell connection each day.

I have three questions:

1. Does what the doctor said about taking a significant amount of time to get used to having REM sleep make sense?

2. Can periods of REM sleep be determined from the data reported by the CPAP machine?  If so, how would I see that?  I'm asking this because, after what the doctor said, I'd like to know if I am successfully having REM sleep now and how much.

3. The SleepyHead program has two User Flags that I can be set to trigger when flow is restricted a certain percent for a certain amount of time.  My UF #2 is currently set at 50% for 8 minutes.  Even though the data shows that I only have a few Clear Airway, Obstructive Apneas, or Hypopneas per night, it does show that I have quite a bit more UF #2 events.  I've seen some discussions/questions where some have wondered whether those "mini-apneas" might account for not getting enough good sleep and the resulting fatigue.  Are the two UF flags something that the doctor sees in the data that is wirelessly sent to them or are they simply derived flags deduced in the SleepyHead software and not something that is specifically flagged in the data sent to the doctor?  And are those something that the doctor would be likely to give any credence to anyway?

1.  Has your physician performed an endocrine workup to check hormones such as melatonin which can have a significant effect on REM sleep as can periodic heart arrhythmias.  Sometime sleep is a puzzle that starts with a thorough medical workup -- not just one limited to sleep issues.

2.  REM sleep cannot be determined from a CPAP machine as it only measures pressure and flow. There is no method, short of an EEG with or without an eye monitor, to determine sleep stages.

3.  I asked my physician if there was any value in reporting the events shown by the user-defined flags in Sleepyhead. He said that since they did not affect the AHI score and were simply reporting of user-set levels that he did not wish to see them in my reports. Pretty much why he prefers ResScan over Sleepyhead. He was more interested in looking at the waveform detail using expanded time scales -- which he could easily do with the software. He also said that the transmitted data was so limited as to be used only for compliance. He also mentioned it is stored in a giant database somewhere for research into the habits of sleep apnea users.

4.  Did your doctor mention anything about possible oxygen desaturation that may be making you feel poorly?

Best of luck on a solution to feeling better.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
Post Reply Post Reply
#5
RE: Can CPAP Machine Detect REM Sleep?
It took me adout 3 months of paping before I noticed I was dreaming again. Each of use takes a different amount of time . So have patience and hang in there.
Post Reply Post Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Feel like my CPAP machine is killing me jimbob123 1 86 Yesterday, 05:42 AM
Last Post: Rich66
Question [Diagnosis] First post-CPAP visit to Sleep Doc - What to talk about? FlyAU98 6 186 03-23-2024, 09:08 AM
Last Post: HalfAsleep
  Needing help fixing my sleep with cpap nunogarcia 2 156 03-22-2024, 09:04 PM
Last Post: PeaceLoveAndPizza
  Need help new on CPAP machine Jimasripper 10 298 03-22-2024, 03:08 PM
Last Post: Jimasripper
  Ready to buy CPAP machine NewlyDiagnosed 29 620 03-21-2024, 01:42 PM
Last Post: NewlyDiagnosed
  UARS diagnosis? No improvements on CPAP. What Bilevel machine to get and where? empiricismandstatistics 8 198 03-21-2024, 04:29 AM
Last Post: empiricismandstatistics
  [Treatment] Request for Sleep Data review compared to Sleep Study thesingingchef 2 161 03-14-2024, 05:14 PM
Last Post: thesingingchef


New Posts   Today's Posts


About Apnea Board

Apnea Board is an educational web site designed to empower Sleep Apnea patients.