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Does abnormal breathing trigger an elevated heart rate? Or vice versa.
#1
Question 
Does abnormal breathing trigger an elevated heart rate? Or vice versa.
I would genuinely appreciate some insights into changing my therapy settings. I should also decide to see a heart specialist or sleep doctor first. Getting an appointment takes 3-4 months, so knowing is better.

I woke up with chest pain and high HR but no suffocation. According to the OxiU ring, my HR went from 60 (O2SAT 98%) to 105  (O2SAT 99%) within 12 seconds. Simultaneously, abnormal breathing developed. See the "Chest pain"  and the "whole" screenshots. I cannot decide which one occurred first because the timeline of the AC-10 and the ring is not precise down to the seconds. 

Usually, I have about five obstructed exhalations per hour, spanning 5-10 seconds. Also, there are a few CAs per night, which the software does not recognize because they are short. During these events, my HR goes up from the fifties to the eighties. See a typical one in the "small peak" screenshot. I have not been concerned about them. However, this chest pain is concerning.

Three weeks ago,  I moved from Airsense 10 to AirCurve 10 and set its parameters myself. Initially, I had a few CAs, which eventually disappeared. The increased PS cleared up the OS events. But I try to keep the pressure low because of other health concerns. The PS 2.6 seemed to be a good compromise. I set the Cycle to high for a better insp/exp ratio.

- I cannot figure out which occurred first. The high HR or the abnormal breathing at 05:00:20? 
- What do you think about my therapy settings? 

Thanks


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#2
RE: Does abnormal breathing trigger an elevated heart rate? Or vice versa.
The breathing you've zoomed in on was likely your last REM segment and is "normally abnormal" as compared to other sleep stages. Considering this was near the end of your night and you woke up w/ your heart racing did you find yourself in an odd sleeping position? Hard to argue w/ a 0.00 AHI and a 0.05 99.5% Flow Limitation regarding settings!
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#3
RE: Does abnormal breathing trigger an elevated heart rate? Or vice versa.
No, I was in my usual left-side position. Thanks for the quick response.
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#4
RE: Does abnormal breathing trigger an elevated heart rate? Or vice versa.
Waking up with chest pain was what got me to seek treatment for sleep apnea a few years ago.  In a nutshell, after a home sleep study, a PSG, appointments with my PCP, ENT (who specializes in sleep apnea), Pulmonologist (who specializes in sleep apnea treatment also), and Cardiologist (who had me wear a heart monitor for a week for 24 hours each day), we all concluded that abnormal breathing caused the chest pain and any heart rate fluctuations.  For me personally, obstructive apnea clusters were the most likely culprit - spo2 down to 78 (I was sleeping flat on my back with no soft cervical collar).  After getting the collar and sleeping on a 45 degree angle upper body wedge, I have had zero chest pain.  This is actually both with and without using either my ASV or ventilator (I have taken a few home sleep studies and capnography tests on room air - but no chest pain at all with these).  I have very mild mitral valve prolapse, and am now taking a beta blocker (Metoprolol) and heart rhythm med (Propafenone).  But all testing done by the Cardiologist has come back normal (normal LVEF, heart rhythm, echocardiograms, etc.).  I had a kind of bad reaction to the nuclear stress test, but I could have been allergic or partially allergic to the dye used.
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#5
RE: Does abnormal breathing trigger an elevated heart rate? Or vice versa.
I recently had a discussion with some members about synchronizing the time of our wellue with the *PAP device.

BigWing has a rather unique method of checking his sync, read the thread here:

https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread...kme+O2+max

Have you been able to import your Pulse/Oximeter into the OSCAR Report?

I do not know what health concerns you have, but if you could stand just 0.4 cmH2O more PS.

You might benefit from increasing your PS to 3.0, It might help round out the tops of those wave shape preceding the incident you highlighted.

I know the frustration of having 0.00 AHI, low flow limits and still not satisfied with the sleep results.

After importing Pulse/Oximeter data, the only flags I had to chase were Pulse Change (PC)and SpO2 Drops (SD). 

From my medical team the consensus seem to be that the distorted breathing brings on the pulse increase then the SpO2 response.
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#6
RE: Does abnormal breathing trigger an elevated heart rate? Or vice versa.
(04-11-2024, 05:23 PM)UnicornRider Wrote: I recently had a discussion with some members about synchronizing the time of our wellue with the *PAP device.

BigWing has a rather unique method of checking his sync, read the thread here:

https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread...kme+O2+max


Do you think the syncup between an 02 monitor like a Wellue and the OSCAR data lines up pretty well. Meaning having an abnormal breathing event and seeing it aligned with the pulse spike. I wonder if the recording resolution on the 02 monitors and getting that lined up is accurate enough. Interesting stuff. Thanks for the link!
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#7
RE: Does abnormal breathing trigger an elevated heart rate? Or vice versa.
I can only speak for the Wellue Checkme O2 Max.

We have four of them that get read daily,

Two of them are from *PAP users,

Yes you can go granular (zoomed in to a two or three minute view) and see a relation between Event Flags on the PAP device and motion, pulse and Oximeter changes from the Checkme O2 Max.

Read this thread closely, we discuss the many merits of comparing them, and how to sync the two devices timewise.

https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread...kme+O2+max
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#8
RE: Does abnormal breathing trigger an elevated heart rate? Or vice versa.
Thank you for the comments and suggestions, UnicoreRider and Jay51.

Follow up: In the evening, I went to the emergency room (because of the abnormally high HR and BP during the whole day and the lingering chest pain), where they confirmed that my heart had not been damaged, and the ECG was ok as well.
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#9
RE: Does abnormal breathing trigger an elevated heart rate? Or vice versa.
(04-11-2024, 02:56 PM)G. Szabo Wrote: No, I was in my usual left-side position. Thanks for the quick response.

I am sorry to hear about your struggles. Sounds stressful. I wanted to reply to your comment regarding sleeping position. I know this is only my experience, but I often cannot sleep on my left side. I am an otherwise healthy 40 year old man with idiopathic central apnea and mild obstructive apnea. I've noticed for a long time that sleeping on my left side makes my heart feel funny and often makes me feel like I can't breathe very well or that I am unable to draw in enough oxygen. I tried using the ECG feature on my smart watch as well another cardiac device and both showed irregular heartbeat when on my left side. I discussed these results with a cardiologist and he said that sleeping on the left side can put extra stress on the heart and often causes it to compress a bit against the wall of your chest.  When I sleep on my right side, this problem is nonexistent. 

Just my anecdotal experience.
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#10
RE: Does abnormal breathing trigger an elevated heart rate? Or vice versa.
(04-12-2024, 10:12 AM)icipher Wrote: I am sorry to hear about your struggles. Sounds stressful. I wanted to reply to your comment regarding sleeping position. I know this is only my experience, but I often cannot sleep on my left side. I am an otherwise healthy 40 year old man with idiopathic central apnea and mild obstructive apnea. I've noticed for a long time that sleeping on my left side makes my heart feel funny and often makes me feel like I can't breathe very well or that I am unable to draw in enough oxygen. I tried using the ECG feature on my smart watch as well another cardiac device and both showed irregular heartbeat when on my left side. I discussed these results with a cardiologist and he said that sleeping on the left side can put extra stress on the heart and often causes it to compress a bit against the wall of your chest.  When I sleep on my right side, this problem is nonexistent. 

Just my anecdotal experience.

Thank you, icipher, for your concerns and describing your experience.
Before I decided about my side sleep position, I searched the internet and found that the general consensus was that the left side is healthier, even from the perspective of the heart. Hence, your cardiologist's comment was a surprise. It would be worth opening a separate discussion about it. 
Best, 
G.   
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