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From APAP to BIPAP
#1
From APAP to BIPAP
Hey All,
I have bought a second hand Resmed Lumis 150 STA to see if this would make my nights more comfortable. - I am strugling with air getting into my stomach with the APAP.

My APAP machine was set up with pressure Min 7 Max 12 

I have set up the Lumis in ST mode because i am not sure i know enough about the IVAPS mode yet.

I set EPAP to 5 and IPAP to 4
TI Min 0.8 and TI max 1.80

Last night was my first try, and i feel terrible. I'm dizzy and tired.  - Can any of you see anything from the screenshots about what is happening ?
On the plus side i have no air in my stomach today


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#2
RE: From APAP to BIPAP
You very likely overbought on the machine. You probably just needed a VAuto like bilevel, however you bought the one that treats lung disease restricted breathing style. That's what iVAPS is for.

ST is a spontaneous timed mode, it'll time some of your breathing. This too is probably overkill. The ST will only have a single static EPAP and IPAP, where a VAuto like ResMed would offer variable pressures.

Are you just trying to treat Apnea or some lung condition as well? If just Apnea, this will likely be harder on you to tune than what you're in need of.
Mask Primer

Positional Apnea

Attach OSCAR, etc.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#3
RE: From APAP to BIPAP
I am sure you are right, I should have read some more in here before I bought the thing. At least is was cheap and has no more than 600h runtime.

I have no underlying issues other than mild to moderate apnea.
So you dont think I could use it in ivaps mode and make it work?
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#4
RE: From APAP to BIPAP
Welcome

We will be better able to help you if you set up your Oscar charts differently.  We need to see the whole night's sleep and only show an enlarged section of a few minutes if someone asks you to.

On the first page, we need to see only the following in the order listed below.

Event Flags
Flow Rate
Pressure
Leak Rate
Flow Limits

We need to be able to read to the very bottom of the Flow Limits.

Best of luck with improving your therapy!  Smile
Machine:  ResMed AirCurve 10 Vauto
Mask:  Bleep DreamPort Sleep Solution and F&P Nova Micro

Link to thread about switching from Autoset to Bilevel:
https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread...+a+bilevel

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#5
RE: From APAP to BIPAP
Thanks, I will do that, except for flow limits. The Lumis cant show them.
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#6
RE: From APAP to BIPAP
With iVAPS you might have static EPAP then a PS range that gives the variable IPAP. It might help in theory.
Mask Primer

Positional Apnea

Attach OSCAR, etc.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#7
RE: From APAP to BIPAP
Screenshot attached from last night. - I went back to IVAPS mode so you can see how it reacts.

I have a lot of leaks with my nasal mask that i need to take care of.

As SarcasticDave94 suggests i will need to disable AutoEPAP because when it is on i cant lower IPAP Max below 8 and a pressure of up to 16 is way to high for my need.
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#8
RE: From APAP to BIPAP
Sorry, forgot the file :


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#9
RE: From APAP to BIPAP
The big issue now is leaks. Your mask likely needs adjusted.
Mask Primer

Positional Apnea

Attach OSCAR, etc.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#10
RE: From APAP to BIPAP
I was going to say that the best advice about iVAPS is ... don't do it!  It is highly unlikely that you need it (To tell whether it might help you, you need to post a chart showing minute vent in a mode other than iVAPS).

But you did!  And with Auto EPAP so you had PS range > 8!  How are you feeling?  I don't know what settings you are using for height, Target Va or Target Pt Rate, but it looks to me as though the targets were low and so the machine did not try to blow you away - much.

If you really want to use iVAPS, do the following over a period of several nights, or even weeks:

  1. Convert from APAP to S mode. Based on 6 November, maybe use use EPAP = 8 and IPAP = 11 .  Take time in this mode to refine EPAP and IPAP and to work out your settings for Rise Time, Ti Min and Max, Trigger and Cycle. 
  2. Switch to ST mode.  This is just S mode with a backup rate.  Best is to turn iBR on and set Target Pt Rate to 13, your median respiratory rate.  Note that you could possibly combine this and the previous  step because your min RR on 6 November was 9.6 compared to the background backup rate of 8.7 (2/3 of 13), so it would have had no effect anyway.  
  3. Switch to iVAPS mode (Auto EPAP off).  This is ST mode but with a range for PS (IPAP - EPAP) instead of a fixed IPAP, and a target volume that the machine will attempt to maintain by varying PS.  My suggestion is to set Min PS to the same PS as you were using in ST mode, initially set Max PS to Min PS + 2.  Set Target VA such that Target Mv is about 10 to 15% lower than your median Mv achieved while using ST mode.  
  4. If you get that working, your first adjustment will be to max PS to give it enough range to work with.
  5. Next you might increase your Target VA, eventually up to where the Target Mv is approximately your median Mv achieved while using ST mode.  As you do so you will most likely need to both reduce Min PS and increase Max PS.
  6. If your PS range is > 8, you could consider auto EPAP again
When I look at my charts for iVAPS, I focus on:
  • Flow rate
  • SpO2 (if you record that)
  • Pressure
  • Resp. Rate
  • Tidal Volume
  • Minute Vent
I don't look at Event flags because I have few, and they show on the breathing chart.  I don't show leaks because I use an Evora Full and seldom have any.  Either or both of these may be useful to you.

Other useful indications are the Spontaneous Trigger and Cycle values.  These are only available in the sleep report of your machine,  Be sure to change the report period to 1 Day (and do this after any power disruption to the machine).  I keep a record of these daily values in a spreadsheet so that I can use them to assess the impact of settings changes.  Spont. Trigger, in particular, may provide a proxy for the CA index, since backup rate should prevent CAs from occurring by initiating a mandatory (non-spontaneous) Trigger.

Final word, the smart thing to do is only Step 1 of the process described above (S mode).  Step 2 (ST mode) should also be "harmless" if you really wanted to do that, but it should also be unnecessary unless you increase PS to the point of causing CAs.  As I said, I think it is unlikely that you will need iVAPS.
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