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Home Sleep Study - Low AHI but significant desat
#41
Ohmy 
RE: Home Sleep Study - Low AHI but significant desat
I gave the F30 full face mask a try last night since I really, really don't want to play with mouth taping.
Mouth taping is looking like a better option now.   Oh-jeez


My husband told me this morning that he doesn't understand how it's possible to stop breathing so many times while air is actively blowing in my face to keep me from stopping breathing.  Poor guy got less sleep than I did last night.

So, I have a question about the differences in treatment between pillows and full face: 

- This looks to me like an EPR setting that works fine with nasal masks (P10) has a much bigger impact on CA events when used with a FFM.  I'm assuming that it's wiping out my CO2 and driving up my CA events.  If so, is it reasonable to assume that decreasing the EPR could reduce the CAs?  Or is this a high enough instance of CAs that I shouldn't expect a full face mask to work at all?  It just seems like a dramatic increase in events and it makes me suspicious of the usefulness of FFM in my case.

- I'm not going to subject my husband to another night like this one, but I'm traveling for work for the next two weeks and can try this again with EPR turned off while I'm traveling, to see if it will work.  (I picked up some mask liners that might reduce the leaking issue later in the night...I think that was due to oil building up on my skin and making the seal less effective.)  Does that sound reasonable?  Is there anything else I can do to make a FFM more effective without causing more desats in the process?

As an aside, is mouth taping likely to be that important for me anyway?  Even with mouth leaks I never crossed the large leak threshold, so maybe I'm making too much of it.  I don't have a good feel for whether or not it impacts how I feel each morning.  I guess I should just try it once and see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for any comments or advice you can offer.


   
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#42
RE: Home Sleep Study - Low AHI but significant desat
Hope my experience helps you. I, too, have a low AHI. Flow limits is my challenge.

I switched to the F30 FFM from the P10 with mouth taping, and now back to the P10 with mouth taping again. I found the F30 temperamental, as far as leaks were concerned, but I eventually got it to work. I tried the mask liner, that helped, but was tricky to use. What helped me fit the F30 was by allowing time to quietly review and follow the Apnea Board Mask Fitting Guidelines. http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...l_Strategy  I stopped using the mask liner, as I found I didn't need it.  I used the F30 without liner for months, and worked around the leaks. I watched the ResMed "how to" instructional video. It helped by showing how to adjust the mask when leaks arise.

I stopped using the F30 because I am a side sleeper and the mask straps were causing me head pain and headaches. (I have never had headaches.) I got so I didn't want anything substantial on my head, so I went back to my beloved P10 with new mouth tape. I now use 3M "strong hold" tape, easy removal for sensitive skin. I just suck my lips inward and slap the tape on starting at the center. Be sure to fold back a little bit of the edges on each end for a handle to give you quick removal. 

Good luck.
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#43
RE: Home Sleep Study - Low AHI but significant desat
(05-10-2021, 05:13 PM)TiredOne789 Wrote: Hope my experience helps you. I, too, have a low AHI. Flow limits is my challenge.

I switched to the F30 FFM from the P10 with mouth taping, and now back to the P10 with mouth taping again. I found the F30 temperamental, as far as leaks were concerned, but I eventually got it to work. I tried the mask liner, that helped, but was tricky to use. What helped me fit the F30 was by allowing time to quietly review and follow the Apnea Board Mask Fitting Guidelines. http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...l_Strategy  I stopped using the mask liner, as I found I didn't need it.  I used the F30 without liner for months, and worked around the leaks. I watched the ResMed "how to" instructional video. It helped by showing how to adjust the mask when leaks arise.

I stopped using the F30 because I am a side sleeper and the mask straps were causing me head pain and headaches. (I have never had headaches.) I got so I didn't want anything substantial on my head, so I went back to my beloved P10 with new mouth tape. I now use 3M "strong hold" tape, easy removal for sensitive skin. I just suck my lips inward and slap the tape on starting at the center. Be sure to fold back a little bit of the edges on each end for a handle to give you quick removal. 

Good luck.

Thank you for that input.  It does seem to track with my experience so far.  I read the mask fitting primer but haven't spent the time to do what it says.  I'll go back and re-read it and see if I can follow the process.

Thanks for the advice on the 3M tape. I drool a bit (ok...it's really a lot) at night and have been concerned about finding the right tape.  I'll give the strong hold a try.  I really like the P10, so I was only trying the F30 to deal with the mouth breathing, and to prep for the inevitable allergy breathing challenges that will be here soon, once Mother Nature decides she's dropped enough snow on us for the season.  But hopefully I can stick with the P10 most of the time.
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#44
RE: Home Sleep Study - Low AHI but significant desat
I bought the 3M "strong hold" tape online through amazon by mistake . . .and love it. Be careful when purchasing it.  3M has another tape product in identical packaging for "sensitive skin".  The 3M strong hold works great on drool.
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#45
RE: Home Sleep Study - Low AHI but significant desat
The chart in the post from [04-28-2021, 11:07 AM] shows what seems a lower minute flow rate after the last CA. The amplitude of flow is less than before the CAs in the chart.  Is that what you see more often in minute flow charts? Higher minute flow before apneas?  I did not see any minute breathing charts.

I read that higher breathing rate (hyperventilation) can be a trigger of subsequent central events. In my case I see that 80-90% of all periods with irregular breathing and desats are preceded by a minute or so of increase minute flow rate. Typically going from around 6 liters per minute to 10-12 liters per minute. So a bit of hyperventilation.   My ASV device does not limit the hyperventilation but does stabilize the subsequent breathing.

Some of the symptoms of hyperventilation are very close to those of desats. Headache, dizziness, chest pain, palpitations.
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#46
RE: Home Sleep Study - Low AHI but significant desat
(05-13-2021, 02:13 PM)MrSpeed Wrote: The chart in the post from [04-28-2021, 11:07 AM] shows what seems a lower minute flow rate after the last CA. The amplitude of flow is less than before the CAs in the chart.  Is that what you see more often in minute flow charts? Higher minute flow before apneas?  I did not see any minute breathing charts.

I read that higher breathing rate (hyperventilation) can be a trigger of subsequent central events. In my case I see that 80-90% of all periods with irregular breathing and desats are preceded by a minute or so of increase minute flow rate. Typically going from around 6 liters per minute to 10-12 liters per minute. So a bit of hyperventilation.   My ASV device does not limit the hyperventilation but does stabilize the subsequent breathing.

Some of the symptoms of hyperventilation are very close to those of desats. Headache, dizziness, chest pain, palpitations.

Interesting.  I always move the SpO2 chart up and the vent charts down, since I'm usually focusing on the desats.  So I went back to 4-28 and looked at the CA cluster and took a quick screenshot.  I do see some crazy deep breathing between the events.  I'm not sure what it signifies, but hyperventilation does seem like a reasonable description.  But it looks like it's a response to the first CAs rather than a trigger.  Something else to ponder....

   
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