How to be sleepier, and be so earlier in the evening?

[NoddingHacker]

I have been having issues with generating enough sleepiness to smoothly fall asleep at night. My acute insomina has mostly passed by now. My onset is not torturous anymore. But I do have to wait until 23:00 to actually fall asleep. Between 20:00 and 23:00 I have this sh**ty window of being wayyy too tired than I am sleepy. I WANT to sleep but can't bring myself to it. Or at least, do so early in the evening so I reap those sweet pre midnight sleep hours.

I am a morning person and perform best when I go to bed at 21 or 22 and rise at 5 or 6 AM (naturally!). I wish to go back to my optimal state. More so, having more sleepiness will allow me to get back on my cpap (sleeping without it by itself is a struggle). I have been trying blackout curtains, low temp bedroom, meditating before bedtime etc. I feel none of that helps, even though it really did help in the past.

How to generate more sleepiness, and do so earlier in the evening so I could be the morning lark that I am?

[Ockrocket]

Decades ago I was told our sleep cycles come every 20 minutes, particularly in the evenings once the sun goes down.

So I used to take note of the time when I felt a bit sleepy, then maybe wait for the next sleepy feeling 20 minutes later.. and then make sure I was in bed about 5 minutes before the next period after that was due.

It used to work for me, and I would usually be asleep within a few minutes of my head hitting the pillow.
I need to get back to doing it again because I'm not good with my sleep patterns lately, and often lay awake for a couple of hours or more because my mind is stressing about not having gone to sleep quickly.. which then keeps me awake even longer.

[vrapche031]

Im having a similar struggle. Since I started CPAP I woke up a couple of times at 6am feeling refreshed and not tired, first time I felt this in my whole life.
But this only happens if I fall asleep around 22:30/23:00. If I fall asleep even 30 minutes later, I will just wake up around 8 and I will feel like crap.

The problem is that I simply cant always fall asleep that damn early. Its not helping that I am now back on some meds which are keeping me awake.

I really dont understand this. How is it possible that my body gets enough rest only if I sleep from a certain period until a certain period. If I go to sleep a bit later but still get more or an equal amount of sleep - I should feel the same, there shouldnt be this huge difference where I either feel refreshed or I feel like I felt before I used CPAP.

[mesenteria]

Consistency if important.  Try to go to bed and to rise within 30 minutes of appointed times each night and morning.

Exercise is important, but not within two hours of bedtime.  As the late Dick Proenneke would say, "It's surprising how comfortable a hard bench is when you've just come down off a mountain."

Diet is important, not just what you eat but when you eat.  Minimal fat prior to bed, more carbs, but never more than about 200 calories worth.  Never within two hours of bedtime...you'll store everything you eat after 2100 hours and you'll get fat.  No, really.

Consider taking routine medications earlier in the day.  You'd be surprised how some of them affect you.

No non-prescribed hallucinogens and mood-altering drugs or alcohol in the evening if you expect to sleep, or to stay asleep.

Avoiding the use of screens of any kind within two hours of bedtime is important.  Read a hobby magazine, a novel, sit in a hot tub just prior to bed (no, really), sit out on the front porch and listen for a while.  You'll get sleepy.

Think about favourite projects, pastimes, hobbies, even plan a vacation when you get into bed.  Go through all the steps it would take to build a pipe organ, or to fire a steam locomotive from cold, or how to disassemble an automobile engine, or how to bake something complicated.  It has to be something with which you are familiar and that is a passion.  Such thinking calms the mind and allows it to begin to rest...believe it or not.

Lastly, and it's a doozy: deal constructively with matters that make your heart skip a beat when you think of them.  If you're putting something off, or avoiding facing something, you'll sleep poorly or not at all.  Deal with anger, disagreement, precarious finances, bad relationships, or other recurring worries and vexations so that you can rest.

[Damiansd]

Have a look through this article in our WIKI and maybe there is something in there that might help. I've used a few and they've helped me.

http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php/Sleep_tips

Cheers,
Damian.

[sleepyp]

My mum used to annoy me when I was a teen by saying that every hour of sleep before 12 counts for 2 after.

According to my sleep tracker, most of my deep sleep stages occur before 12. After twelve is mainly REM and light sleep.
When I get to bed after 12 the tracker registers maybe 11mins deep, but if I get to bed by 10pm then I'll register about 1 hour deep sleep and feel far more rested the next day.

I hate to admit it, but my mum was right dammit...

[Ockrocket]

My mum used to annoy me when I was a teen by saying that every hour of sleep before 12 counts for 2 after.

According to my sleep tracker, most of my deep sleep stages occur before 12. After twelve is mainly REM and light sleep.
When I get to bed after 12 the tracker registers maybe 11mins deep, but if I get to bed by 10pm then I'll register about 1 hour deep sleep and feel far more rested the next day.

I hate to admit it, but my mum was right dammit...

Doesn't that suck when the "olds" are right..   

[NoddingHacker]

Decades ago I was told our sleep cycles come every 20 minutes, particularly in the evenings once the sun goes down.

So I used to take note of the time when I felt a bit sleepy, then maybe wait for the next sleepy feeling 20 minutes later.. and then make sure I was in bed about 5 minutes before the next period after that was due.

It used to work for me, and I would usually be asleep within a few minutes of my head hitting the pillow.
I need to get back to doing it again because I'm not good with my sleep patterns lately, and often lay awake for a couple of hours or more because my mind is stressing about not having gone to sleep quickly.. which then keeps me awake even longer.

Where can I read more about that?

Im having a similar struggle. Since I started CPAP I woke up a couple of times at 6am feeling refreshed and not tired, first time I felt this in my whole life.
But this only happens if I fall asleep around 22:30/23:00. If I fall asleep even 30 minutes later, I will just wake up around 8 and I will feel like crap.

The problem is that I simply cant always fall asleep that damn early. Its not helping that I am now back on some meds which are keeping me awake.

I really dont understand this. How is it possible that my body gets enough rest only if I sleep from a certain period until a certain period. If I go to sleep a bit later but still get more or an equal amount of sleep - I should feel the same, there shouldnt be this huge difference where I either feel refreshed or I feel like I felt before I used CPAP.

This is because 22:00 to 2 AM is the time where the body secrets the most melatonin, giving you great sleep. If you are also a morning lark like me, it may just suit you more since you like getting up early.

Have a look through this article in our WIKI and maybe there is something in there that might help. I've used a few and they've helped me.

http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php/Sleep_tips

Cheers,
Damian.

I have tried most of those tips. Only things I don't practice often are staying away from electronics and taking showers. I tried it religiously for a while, but lately even that doesnt help. I was hoping there were more ideas, though my sleep DR says my sleep drive issues are mainly psychosomatic.

[vrapche031]

I cant say that I am a morning person since all my life until a month ago I always woke up exhausted and hated every single morning of my life. So maybe I am turning into one now

[Ockrocket]

Decades ago I was told our sleep cycles come every 20 minutes, particularly in the evenings once the sun goes down.

So I used to take note of the time when I felt a bit sleepy, then maybe wait for the next sleepy feeling 20 minutes later.. and then make sure I was in bed about 5 minutes before the next period after that was due.

It used to work for me, and I would usually be asleep within a few minutes of my head hitting the pillow.
I need to get back to doing it again because I'm not good with my sleep patterns lately, and often lay awake for a couple of hours or more because my mind is stressing about not having gone to sleep quickly.. which then keeps me awake even longer.

Where can I read more about that?

I can't recall exactly where I heard about the 20 minute body cycles relating to having "feeling sleepy" points roughly every 20 minutes.. it was back in the 1980s when I first heard the theory.
I did practice it with good success for falling asleep quickly once in bed though.
I'm going to get myself back in to the routine of doing it again.