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Mouth Taping? [as sole treatment]
#11
RE: Mouth Taping?
(09-27-2017, 12:58 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote: Taping ones mouth closed in addition to using a CPAP is controversial, but it does work. It does not TREAT the events, but enables the CPAP to do its job since it stops a big leak issue.

Taping ones mouth closed INSTEAD of using a CPAP is....bad advice.

I snored really bad before CPAP. So bad I had hotel guests complain to the front desk. Yet my mouth stayed closed. I never snore with my mouth open. Taping the mouth instead of using a CPAP does nothing but keep the mouth moist. That MIGHT maybe perhaps keep the throat from becoming sticky but, seriously, no.

Let me make myself clear.  My use of taping to control leaks is as a temporary solution, and it must be done with care.  I do not recommend it as a sole solution.  Also, taping is NOT the first solution that I recommend, but it is a technique, and is the last of the common techniques.

Fred
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#12
RE: Mouth Taping? [as sole treatment]
From the Mask Primer.

Mouth Breathing


Mouth Breathing is when you open your mouth and the air pressure from your PAP is venting out your mouth typically showing on your charts as a large leak which can substantially negate the effectiveness of your therapy. It is generally not good. The solution varies depending on the person
With SleepyHead look at your Leak Rate graph where it is shaded (large leak/ LL), flat tops on this graph suggest mouth breathing. In SleepyHead right click on the left header of the Leak Rate graph and click on Dotted Lines then select "Leak Rate Upper Threshold" to get a line across the graph for ResMed. Manually set the value for Philips Respironics. Severity depends on how much over this threshold and for how long it is in the Large Leak territory.

How to manage Mouth Breathing, not in any particular order.

Tongue Trick. Place the tongue on the roof of the mouth, Practice during the daytime. The idea is to train the tongue that this is a good place to be, not overnight, but it works for some.
Cervical Collar. A "soft" Cervical Collar. This helps support and align the neck and keeps the jaw/mouth from dropping. This is becoming a very popular option. Rarely used prior to mid 2016. Users are posting a high success rate with this device. When OA tends to occur in clusters at different times of night. It's an indication that an obstruction may have occured when the chin tucks towards the chest. It's common, and the solution is either an ergonomic pillow or soft cervical collar that prevents the neck and head from being out of alignment and cutting off the airway, but they can be comfortable, prevent leaks and prevent an airway from closing up due to tucking your chin to chest and other issues. You are looking for a comfortable fit 2-inches larger than the circumference of your neck and just tall enough to support the jaw when your head falls out of alignment (measure your neck from collarbone to jaw and subtract 1". It's a very small investment that has worked very well for some people. More pressure may solve the obstruction, or it might go away with positional therapy.
Chin Strap. A chin strap is to manage mouth leaks from a variety of causes. Most result from the jaw dropping or opening either partially or wider. The chin strap is to gently keep the jaw closed. If you have to crank it shut to make it work this is not the correct solution. Note that your jaw is strong enough to open if it wants to. There is one chinstrap that is notably different than others, the Ultimate Chinstrap, Search for it if you desire.
Ergonomic Pillow or CPAP Pillow, The purpose being to maintain a proper head and neck alignment while allowing for the mask maintaing the seal in multiple positions.
Mouth Guard The concept here is a closed mouth guard to keep the air from leaking out.
Taping. Definitely the most controversial. The purpose of taping is to seal the lips and prevent mouth leaks / mouth breathing. It is not to stop the mouth from opening. I make sure that I can easily open my mouth, when taped, if I need to.
FFM – Full Face Mask or Hybrid Mask. This is a very traditional solution and it is generally effective.
Dry mouth is a symptom mouth breathing that is uncomfortable. It can and does occur with some users of a Full Face Mask.

Many users use a product called Biotene to get relief from this symptom.

Note: I crossed out two solutions because I don't believe they apply to you.

Fred
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#13
RE: Mouth Taping? [as sole treatment]
Thanks for the continuation of responses. A question... From what I understand, the idea behind using a chin strap is to keep the mouth closed. And the idea behind taping your mouth (with a non sticky easy to remove tape) is to keep it closed. So if the goal of both methods is to keep the mount closed, why would one method be better (or worse) than the other?
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#14
RE: Mouth Taping? [as sole treatment]
Actually with a chin strap or cervical collar they should be loose enough to still be able to open your jaw if needed. Sometimes tape is used as a last resort because air leaks through the lips even though the jaw is closed.
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#15
RE: Mouth Taping? [as sole treatment]
Well, I agree, it doesn't seem to make sense, but I find that the small vertical force under my chin--as provided by a chinstrap--is enough to remind my lower jaw to stay up, yet I can easily talk and freely open my mouth if I choose to. Other differences are a long story, best discovered with your own experimentation, I think.  Some chinstraps seem to apply more of a backward force, like a45 degree angle pushing your jaw back more than up, and those seem less effective for me. I am not a mouth breather, fwiw; my lower jaw just tends to drop--don't know if that makes a difference or not.  Good luck!
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#16
RE: Mouth Taping? [as sole treatment]
Taping is for the purpose of keeping the jaw closed.  Neither are the other methods.  They are for the purpose of promoting nasal breathing and preventing the exit os splinting air from exiting the lips.  

Tape does this not by holding the mouth closed but by sealing the lips to prevent the flow of air either in or out.  Given the worse case scenario, if the tape stays in place, your sinuses totally plug, and you cannot breath.  This is the logic behind the controversial aspect of taping.  

Has the blue painters tape been tested for human application.  I' suspect the glue is different than medical tape.  I do NOT recommend the use of painters tape for human application for anything other than emergency use when medical grade tape is NOT available.  

A danger of loose sticking tape is that you may inhale it,  not good.  It is a delicate balance.

The concept of a chin strap in this (sleep Apnea Mouth Breathing) is to keep the lips closed thus preventing the loss of splinting air.  It is NOT to keep the jaw closed.  It performs its function by keeping the jaw mostly closed.

The risk of a chin strap is to utilize too much pressure causing the jaw and or teeth to migrate causing pain and TMJ.

The best method we have found is one we have found by trial and error.  The use of a soft, loose fitting cervical collar.  To date this is not a medically approved use of this device.


Fred
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#17
RE: Mouth Taping?
(09-27-2017, 12:54 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote: An actual PHYSICIAN with credentials in SLEEP therapy suggested MOUTH TAPING as treatment for your sleep apnea?

Are you *#(@)#* serious???

OMG! As if keeping your mouth closed is going to keep your throat from closing?

That's...that is...I mean...

I am so angry right now I could scream.

That's like a mechanic telling you to turn the radio volume louder so you don't hear the power steering whine.

Thanks Agreed 5
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#18
RE: Mouth Taping? [as sole treatment]
Hi Bill Mathias,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
Good luck on your quest for better sleep.
trish6hundred
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#19
RE: Mouth Taping?
(09-27-2017, 12:54 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote: An actual PHYSICIAN with credentials in SLEEP therapy suggested MOUTH TAPING as treatment for your sleep apnea?

Are you *#(@)#* serious???

OMG! As if keeping your mouth closed is going to keep your throat from closing?

That's...that is...I mean...

I am so angry right now I could scream.

That's like a mechanic telling you to turn the radio volume louder so you don't hear the power steering whine.

Oh, That's how you fix that,  Thanks Paula   Doctor-no-get-it

(I have NEVER heard of any Doctor suggesting that!!!)
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#20
RE: Mouth Taping?
(09-27-2017, 10:20 AM)Bill Mathias Wrote: Fred, Thanks for responding. The Dr. I saw is "certified in Neurology and Sleep Medicine".  She mentioned that the sleep study I had put me at a 5 level.

Do you have the sleep study? You could post it here (or relevant portions). That might be more productive than focusing on the tape thing because it'll give you info on the bigger picture.

You don't have a copy of the sleep study, maybe? Demand it. Even if you don't think you need it now, you might need it later. With study in hand, figure out what it all means (ask questions here). That way, you're in charge of the info and can make informed decisions.

"5 level" could mean several things. If it reflects AHI, under Medicare calculations, that level qualifies for treatment. I have an AHI 5 under that scheme. BIG however, I have MODERATE SA; calculated at 3-4% oxygen desat (instead of Medicare's 4%+ desat) my AHI is 18. I believe that would actually be a low number for me and that on a normal night I have all kinds of breathing/throat stuff going on.

If you have corollary symptoms, such as exhaustion, snoring, falling asleep all the time, brain fuzz, and/or heart stuff, diabetes, stroke (and many other symptoms) the significance of an AHI 5 is magnified. That's why Medicare treats at that level.

By the way, with the Medicare AHI of 5, my sleep doc went out of her way to get me treatment. It is not a minor thing.
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