Resmed AirSense 10 auto, did I get a used machine?

[Nightynite]

When I went through the process of returning a used resmed auto set for a new one. I believe in the menu somewhere there was a date for when the unit was first used.  I thought it was in the area where the hours show.  Someone here will know and post it soon.

Would you please explain the process of returning a used machine for a new one. Was your machine paid for by medicare, other insurance or out of pocket by you? I was given a used machine with 1400 hours already on it. I can't find any info that states the DME has to supply a "new machine" for a Medicare (with other ins.) patient. Since it's a 13 month rental agreement for Medicare, what prevents the DME from supplying a used machine? Is there any documentation stating they must supply a new machine?

I was on medicare and received a used resmed auto set from my DME ( Apria). Didn’t find this out until month 12.  A little math work and my machine had 2000 hrs more than I could have put on it.

Contacted Medicare and they had no problem with DME giving me a rental unit with hrs.
They also were not concerned with me owning a old unit on there dime or had any procedure for a user to receive a new unit after compliance.

I contacted DME with my hours concern and left multiple messages, no one returned my calls.

I contacted DME headquarters in CA and they said talk to my Local DME.

I drugged them under the bus on consumer affairs and two days later was contacted by someone from corporate who told me to contact my local DME.    

I finally left another message with my DME my machine was broken, and I needed more supplies. 

The next day someone eventually called me and I made an appointment to replace my machine. 

I went to replace my machine and I made sure it was new. It was in an unopened box.

My advice.

Don’t say anything about hours. Tell them your machine makes noises periodically and it wakes you up.
Learn how to check hours of use on the menu.

Be savvy.

[SarcasticDave94]

I'm not so sure the best advice to give is you should fight a crooked DME by becoming a crooked patient. If it's broke OK say so. But don't lie, because then you've just lowered yourself to the crooked DME level.

[lacro]

Contacted Medicare and they had no problem with DME giving me a rental unit with hrs.
They also were not concerned with me owning a old unit on there dime or had any procedure for a user to receive a new unit after compliance.

Thanks for the info. It appears the DME is not required to supply a NEW machine for a Medicare patient. So after the 13 month rental you may now own a machine with several thousand hours on it, and it may not last the 5 year expected machine life. Also, to add insult to injury, if the machine dies before the 5 years, you may be supplied with yet another used machine.

Medicare Replacement Guidelines:

• The supplier must replace the equipment free of charge if it does not last the full five-year period (ie, is no longer serviceable or needs substantial repairs). If it is determined that the item is unable to last for the entire five-year RUL based upon accumulated repair costs (those repair costs exceeding 60% of the cost to replace), the supplier must replace the equipment with properly working equipment at no charge. Replacement equipment does not need to be new

With all the confusion on this issue I think a sticky is appropriate addressing the fact that under Medicare coverage (13 month rental) the DME is not required to supply a new machine.

[Sleeprider]

We have seen used machines dispensed to individuals both as initial dispensing and as replacements. This has been the case with both private insurance and Medicare. In most cases where the recipient identifies the machine as used before accepting delivery, and refuses delivery, the machine is replaced with a new one. I am not aware of anyone that complained about a used machine prior to delivery, that did not have a satisfactory outcome. Relatively few patients are either aware of knowledgeable about this issue and how to deal with it, and it is very difficult to leverage a return once the machine is accepted and used.

A "sticky" thread on the subject is only useful in very limited circumstances where a person is receiving an initial or replacement machine under Medicare, and is a member of these forums prior to taking delivery. Like yourself, most people discovering the problem got the machine first, then came to Apnea Board, and learned how to access the settings.

[Sleeprider]

I have added a section to the CPAP Machine Choices wiki which is linked in the sticky thread of this forum. My DME Dispensed a Used CPAP

[lacro]

I have added a section to the CPAP Machine Choices wiki which is linked in the sticky thread of this forum. New vs Used Machines

Sleeprider: Thanks for adding to the wiki. I am sure it will help someone in the future.

[plpauly]

On my respironics the C-FLEX is set at a 2. Is there a comparable setting on the AirSense 10 Autoset?

[SarcasticDave94]

The closest to Flex in ResMed is EPR, which I've read is more effective in most users. EPR is likened to a limited range BPAP.

[lacro]

We have seen used machines dispensed to individuals both as initial dispensing and as replacements. This has been the case with both private insurance and Medicare.  In most cases where the recipient identifies the machine as used before accepting delivery, and refuses delivery, the machine is replaced with a new one.  I am not aware of anyone that complained about a used machine prior to delivery, that did not have a satisfactory outcome.  Relatively few patients are either aware of knowledgeable about this issue and how to deal with it, and it is very difficult to leverage a return once the machine is accepted and used.  

A "sticky" thread on the subject is only useful in very limited circumstances where a person is receiving an initial or replacement machine under Medicare, and is a member of these forums prior to taking delivery. Like yourself, most people discovering the problem got the machine first, then came to Apnea Board, and learned how to access the settings.

Just an update to my personal situation with being supplied a used machine. The issue has stuck in my craw for awhile now, so I decided to confront the DME to see what they had to say. I wasn't expecting much satisfaction. I realize there is no legal recourse as it's Medicare/other ins. that are paying on a 13 month rental basis. 

However, I was pleasantly surprised being successful in procuring a brand new machine with zero hours without any battle at all. I want to thank everyone for their insight on this matter, and encourage those that have been given a used machine with maybe  thousands of hours on the clock, at least try to get the DME to swap it out for a new machine. Of course it's best to sort out this issue at the time the DME dispenses the machine i.e. check the total run hours in the clinicians menu before acceptance.

[SarcasticDave94]

Congrats on successfully swapping units.