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Central Detection Driving Me Nuts!!
#21
RE: Central Detection Driving Me Nuts!!
(05-30-2018, 12:25 PM)Reznik Wrote: Hi Dave,

I was never able to tolerate the FOT pulses.  

I resolved the issue by buying one of the few Resmed machines that allow you to switch them off, at my own expense.

OK thank you for sharing the info. I guess it goes to highlight how individually unique apnea treatment needs to be addressed.
Dave

I'm not a doctor in real or fictional life. My posts include opinions based upon user experience regarding CPAP therapy and should not be considered medically professional direction or advice. Even a 1,000 mile trip requires a good first step. My recommended first steps include getting good walking shoes, 1 great cup of coffee, and a good GPS.

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#22
RE: Central Detection Driving Me Nuts!!
(05-30-2018, 12:25 PM)Reznik Wrote: Hi Dave,

I was never able to tolerate the FOT pulses.  

I resolved the issue by buying one of the few Resmed machines that allow you to switch them off, at my own expense.

You seem to have the Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto. Is the feature to turn off FOT a special order feature, or is that in the standard menu?
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#23
RE: Central Detection Driving Me Nuts!!
(05-30-2018, 03:42 PM)Sleeprider Wrote:
(05-30-2018, 12:25 PM)Reznik Wrote: Hi Dave,

I was never able to tolerate the FOT pulses.  

I resolved the issue by buying one of the few Resmed machines that allow you to switch them off, at my own expense.

You seem to have the Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto. Is the feature to turn off FOT a special order feature, or is that in the standard menu?

@Reznik - are you still around to answer this? It sounds like FOT can be disabled with a Aircurve 10 VAuto by using S mode with "easy breathe" turned off. Will this eliminate FOT?

Reznik, I'm in the exact same position as you - with FOT waking me up multiple times a night due to the pulses. My full face mask vibrates and it "tickles" my nose (I have a rather large nose so maybe it's my anatomy), but either way, I am definitely waking up due to FOT. I have a pretty good deal on a Aircurve for $450 w/800 hrs that I want to pull the trigger on, but it would be helpful if you could verify that FOT can be disabled on the Aircurve 10 VAuto.
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#24
RE: Central Detection Driving Me Nuts!!
Here is what the manual says: "Central sleep apnea detection is available in VAuto, CPAP and S modes (when Easy-Breathe is
enabled) on AirCurve 10 VAuto and AirCurve 10 S devices.
The AirCurve 10 has central sleep apnea (CSA) detection. The Summary and Detailed Data of these
parameters are available to view on ResMed's patient compliance software (data availability
depends on device mode and parameter measured).
The device detects both obstructive and central sleep apneas (CSA). CSA detection uses the Forced
Oscillation Technique (FOT) to determine the state of the patient’s airway during an apnea. When an
apnea has been detected, small oscillations in pressure (1 cm H2O peak-to-peak at 4 Hz) are added
to the current device pressure. The CSA detection algorithm uses the resulting flow and pressure
(determined at the mask) to measure the airway patency."
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#25
RE: Central Detection Driving Me Nuts!!
(01-02-2019, 06:09 PM)isuckatsleeping Wrote:
(05-30-2018, 03:42 PM)Sleeprider Wrote:
(05-30-2018, 12:25 PM)Reznik Wrote: Hi Dave,

I was never able to tolerate the FOT pulses.  

I resolved the issue by buying one of the few Resmed machines that allow you to switch them off, at my own expense.

You seem to have the Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto. Is the feature to turn off FOT a special order feature, or is that in the standard menu?

@Reznik - are you still around to answer this? It sounds like FOT can be disabled with a Aircurve 10 VAuto by using S mode with "easy breathe" turned off. Will this eliminate FOT?

Reznik, I'm in the exact same position as you - with FOT waking me up multiple times a night due to the pulses. My full face mask vibrates and it "tickles" my nose (I have a rather large nose so maybe it's my anatomy), but either way, I am definitely waking up due to FOT. I have a pretty good deal on a Aircurve for $450 w/800 hrs that I want to pull the trigger on, but it would be helpful if you could verify that FOT can be disabled on the Aircurve 10 VAuto.

Yes, if you buy the Aircurve 10 VAUTO, and put it in S mode with Easy-Breathe turned off, you will NOT get the FOT pulses.  You can also avoid the FOT pulses buy purchasing the Airsense 10 CPAP or the AirStart 10 CPAP.  The Airsense 10 CPAP is considered a "brick" because you cannot download detailed information from it, but it will give you a report at the end of the night telling you your AHI.  THe AirStart will only tell you how many hours you used it.

There is one disadvantage of using the VAUTO.  If you currently use an Airsense and have the EPR enabled, you are getting a bi-level of 1, 2, or 3cm with easy breath enabled.  Easy-breath makes the transition between EPAP and IPAP less sudden and more palatable.  If you switch over to the VAUTO, you'll have to disable easy-breath to get the FOT to stop, and so if you enable bi-level of any kind (even at 1, 2, or 3 cm of difference), the change beween IPAP and EPAP is much more noticeable.  The VAUTO has an option to make the transition between EPAP and IPAP gradual, but there's no way to make the transition from IPAP to EPAP more gradual without enabling easy-breath (and thus enabling the FOT pulses).

So, the short answer is that if you use a consistent pressure and don't need or care about EPR, the VAUTO will work.  That's what I use now.  However, if you use EPR and want to be able to continue using that, I strongly recommend that you consider the Airsense 10 CPAP model.  

The F&P SleepStyle Auto does NOT use pulses of any kind for central apnea detection.  Instead, it determines the nature of the apnea by examining your breathing wave form.  So, you might want to look at that model as well, particularly if you want an auto adjusting model.

I still cannot believe that ResMed thinks that it is acceptable to force this mechanism on CPAP users without informing them of it and allowing it to be disabled across the board.  I cannot help but wonder how many people buy these machines and fail treatment without ever realizing that it is these pulses that are waking them up.  I've repeatedly reached out to executives at ResMed and asked them to address this, but they seem uninterested.  

I also ran across a discussion on another CPAP discussion board from 2011, when the patent on this feature was first released, where people seemed doubtful that this feature wouldn't impact sleep.  I was going to post a link, but apparently the board is DME affiliated and so not allowed.
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#26
RE: Central Detection Driving Me Nuts!!
(01-02-2019, 06:20 PM)Walla Walla Wrote: Here is what the manual says: "Central sleep apnea detection is available in VAuto, CPAP and S modes (when Easy-Breathe is
enabled) on AirCurve 10 VAuto and AirCurve 10 S devices.
The AirCurve 10 has central sleep apnea (CSA) detection. The Summary and Detailed Data of these
parameters are available to view on ResMed's patient compliance software (data availability
depends on device mode and parameter measured).
The device detects both obstructive and central sleep apneas (CSA). CSA detection uses the Forced
Oscillation Technique (FOT) to determine the state of the patient’s airway during an apnea. When an
apnea has been detected, small oscillations in pressure (1 cm H2O peak-to-peak at 4 Hz) are added
to the current device pressure. The CSA detection algorithm uses the resulting flow and pressure
(determined at the mask) to measure the airway patency."

The manual is a bit misleading.  Central Apnea detection isn't merely "available" in those modes.  It is mandatory.  You have to take it whether you like it or not.
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#27
RE: Central Detection Driving Me Nuts!!
(01-02-2019, 06:27 PM)Reznik Wrote:
(01-02-2019, 06:09 PM)isuckatsleeping Wrote:
(05-30-2018, 03:42 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: You seem to have the Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto. Is the feature to turn off FOT a special order feature, or is that in the standard menu?

@Reznik - are you still around to answer this? It sounds like FOT can be disabled with a Aircurve 10 VAuto by using S mode with "easy breathe" turned off. Will this eliminate FOT?

Reznik, I'm in the exact same position as you - with FOT waking me up multiple times a night due to the pulses. My full face mask vibrates and it "tickles" my nose (I have a rather large nose so maybe it's my anatomy), but either way, I am definitely waking up due to FOT. I have a pretty good deal on a Aircurve for $450 w/800 hrs that I want to pull the trigger on, but it would be helpful if you could verify that FOT can be disabled on the Aircurve 10 VAuto.

Yes, if you buy the Aircurve 10 VAUTO, and put it in S mode with Easy-Breathe turned off, you will NOT get the FOT pulses.  You can also avoid the FOT pulses buy purchasing the Airsense 10 CPAP or the AirStart 10 CPAP.  The Airsense 10 CPAP is considered a "brick" because you cannot download detailed information from it, but it will give you a report at the end of the night telling you your AHI.  THe AirStart will only tell you how many hours you used it.

There is one disadvantage of using the VAUTO.  If you currently use an Airsense and have the EPR enabled, you are getting a bi-level of 1, 2, or 3cm with easy breath enabled.  Easy-breath makes the transition between EPAP and IPAP less sudden and more palatable.  If you switch over to the VAUTO, you'll have to disable easy-breath to get the FOT to stop, and so if you enable bi-level of any kind (even at 1, 2, or 3 cm of difference), the change beween IPAP and EPAP is much more noticeable.  The VAUTO has an option to make the transition between EPAP and IPAP gradual, but there's no way to make the transition from IPAP to EPAP more gradual.

So, the short answer is that if you use a consistent pressure and don't need or care about EPR, the VAUTO will work.  That's what I use now.  However, if you use EPR and want to be able to continue using that, I strongly recommend that you consider the Airsense 10 CPAP model.  

The F&P SleepStyle Auto does NOT use pulses of any kind for central apnea detection, so you might want to look at that model as well, particularly if you want an auto adjusting model.

I've repeatedly reached out to executives at ResMed and asked them to address this, but they seem uninterested.  I also ran across a discussion on another CPAP discussion board from 2011, when the patent on this feature was first released, where people seemed doubtful that this feature wouldn't impact sleep.  I was going to post a link, but apparently the board is DME affiliated and so not allowed...

In some ways, this is informative, but in other ways is disinformation, or using the popular vernacular "fake news".   I have not tried to use VPAP-S mode without EasyBreathe™ and cannot confirm or deny that it is possible to disable FOT. I'll take your word for it. Apnea Board does not block links to manufacturer sites or anyplace else except one that I know of.  This board has no DME affiliation, but the forum affiliated with an online DME is blocked to prevent you from getting a rule infraction warning.  All links to any DME is prohibited, so it's not selective.
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#28
RE: Central Detection Driving Me Nuts!!
(01-02-2019, 07:03 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: In some ways, this is informative, but in other ways is disinformation, or using the popular vernacular "fake news".   I have not tried to use VPAP-S mode without EasyBreathe™ and cannot confirm or deny that it is possible to disable FOT. I'll take your word for it. Apnea Board does not block links to manufacturer sites or anyplace else except one that I know of.  This board has no DME affiliation, but the forum affiliated with an online DME is blocked to prevent you from getting a rule infraction warning.  All links to any DME is prohibited, so it's not selective.

The thread was on a board that apparently has a DME affiliation, and it was blocked automatically, so I removed the link entirely.  I'm not sure why you consider that statement "fake news."  it's not fake.  It's just a fact:  People have been complaining about this issue since 2011!  In seven years, ResMed has done nothing to address the issue.  It's a shame because there are people who are failing CPAP because of this problem of not getting therapy that could prolong their lives.
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#29
RE: Central Detection Driving Me Nuts!!
(01-02-2019, 06:27 PM)Reznik Wrote:
(01-02-2019, 06:09 PM)isuckatsleeping Wrote:
(05-30-2018, 03:42 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: You seem to have the Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto. Is the feature to turn off FOT a special order feature, or is that in the standard menu?

@Reznik - are you still around to answer this? It sounds like FOT can be disabled with a Aircurve 10 VAuto by using S mode with "easy breathe" turned off. Will this eliminate FOT?

Reznik, I'm in the exact same position as you - with FOT waking me up multiple times a night due to the pulses. My full face mask vibrates and it "tickles" my nose (I have a rather large nose so maybe it's my anatomy), but either way, I am definitely waking up due to FOT. I have a pretty good deal on a Aircurve for $450 w/800 hrs that I want to pull the trigger on, but it would be helpful if you could verify that FOT can be disabled on the Aircurve 10 VAuto.

Yes, if you buy the Aircurve 10 VAUTO, and put it in S mode with Easy-Breathe turned off, you will NOT get the FOT pulses.  You can also avoid the FOT pulses buy purchasing the Airsense 10 CPAP or the AirStart 10 CPAP.  The Airsense 10 CPAP is considered a "brick" because you cannot download detailed information from it, but it will give you a report at the end of the night telling you your AHI.  THe AirStart will only tell you how many hours you used it.

There is one disadvantage of using the VAUTO.  If you currently use an Airsense and have the EPR enabled, you are getting a bi-level of 1, 2, or 3cm with easy breath enabled.  Easy-breath makes the transition between EPAP and IPAP less sudden and more palatable.  If you switch over to the VAUTO, you'll have to disable easy-breath to get the FOT to stop, and so if you enable bi-level of any kind (even at 1, 2, or 3 cm of difference), the change beween IPAP and EPAP is much more noticeable.  The VAUTO has an option to make the transition between EPAP and IPAP gradual, but there's no way to make the transition from IPAP to EPAP more gradual without enabling easy-breath (and thus enabling the FOT pulses).

So, the short answer is that if you use a consistent pressure and don't need or care about EPR, the VAUTO will work.  That's what I use now.  However, if you use EPR and want to be able to continue using that, I strongly recommend that you consider the Airsense 10 CPAP model.  

The F&P SleepStyle Auto does NOT use pulses of any kind for central apnea detection.  Instead, it determines the nature of the apnea by examining your breathing wave form.  So, you might want to look at that model as well, particularly if you want an auto adjusting model.

I still cannot believe that ResMed thinks that it is acceptable to force this mechanism on CPAP users without informing them of it and allowing it to be disabled across the board.  I cannot help but wonder how many people buy these machines and fail treatment without ever realizing that it is these pulses that are waking them up.  I've repeatedly reached out to executives at ResMed and asked them to address this, but they seem uninterested.  

I also ran across a discussion on another CPAP discussion board from 2011, when the patent on this feature was first released, where people seemed doubtful that this feature wouldn't impact sleep.  I was going to post a link, but apparently the board is DME affiliated and so not allowed.

Ok, thanks for your reply. I do use ERP @ 2, but I've also slept with it off. Either way, the FOT is so disrupting that I'm willing to try anything at this point. It would be great to get a night of restful sleep. I'll pick up the VAuto tonight and give it a try.
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#30
RE: Central Detection Driving Me Nuts!!
Well I just tested my VAUTO on S mode without Easy breath and it recorded CA events when I held my breath with my mouth open.

Which means it must of been using FOT.
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Organize your Sleepyhead Charts
Posting Charts
Beginner's Guide to SleepyHead
Mask Primer
5
Advisory Members serve as an "Advisory Committee" to help shape Apnea Board's rules & policies.

Membership in the Advisory Members group does not imply medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.



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