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Ups and downs. My experiences and Suggestions invited.
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Kadenz Offline

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Post: #11
RE: Ups and downs. My experiences and Suggestions invited.
If you are only getting headaches on a Saturday, it's worth checking to see if that's because you are sleeping in and not drinking coffee or other caffeinated drink as early as you do during the week. This may not be the cause in your case, but getting headaches only at the weekend is often due to that.
11-28-2012 03:27 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

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Post: #12
RE: Ups and downs. My experiences and Suggestions invited.
(11-28-2012 10:43 AM)RimBlock Wrote:  It is because I am still dead on my feet all day, no concentration, no short term memory, my typing is terrible (even more than usual Bigwink ). At least if something showed up on the machines data I would have something to work on.

Be patient. I've been on CPAP for a little over a year and am still noticing improvement. It takes time.

Quote:The only other thing I know is that around 2 years ago, at a guess, I started getting throat infections behind my nose (front wall above where the tonsils hang from). I used to be prone to throat infections but they normally occurred at the back of my throat.

Based on your symptoms I was going to suggest that you visit a good ENT surgeon to make sure that there is nothing obviously wrong with your throat or sinuses, such as tonsils.

My theory is that as my OSA developed over the years it got worse at times when I had sinus infections, which in turn made my headaches worse. I thought they were sinus headaches and perhaps they were, but they were definitely made worse by OSA.

I've had three surgeries on my sinuses, all long before I ever got treated or tested for OSA. When my ENT and I finally gave up on sinuses alone causing my headaches I went to a neurologist and began taking amitriptylene 50 mg daily. That was about 10 years ago. For two years it was raised to 100 mg. Then after I began CPAP it was lowered to 25 mg, which I'm still taking now. I still get the headaches but they are less frequent and less severe by far. And I notice that when I don't sleep well the headaches are worse. When I sleep well they go away, something that never happened pre-CPAP therapy.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
11-28-2012 06:57 PM
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RimBlock Offline

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Post: #13
RE: Ups and downs. My experiences and Suggestions invited.
(11-28-2012 03:27 PM)Kadenz Wrote:  If you are only getting headaches on a Saturday, it's worth checking to see if that's because you are sleeping in and not drinking coffee or other caffeinated drink as early as you do during the week. This may not be the cause in your case, but getting headaches only at the weekend is often due to that.

Thanks, an interesting idea but my headaches tend to occur around 10am on weekdays if I have had a number of bad nights before and I get an uncomfortable feeling, almost like a pressure, before that time as a forewarning.

For the weekends, it feels like a build up of sleep deficit mixed with stress of screaming kids and wife (err at the kids, not me) Big Grin, whilst trying to work out my accounts etc.

I tend to only have around 1 cup of coffee in the morning and drink tea at work, tea, coffee or orange squash at home but rarely have coffee after coming home from work or in the evening more due to just not wanting to rather than to help me sleep better.

I generally fall asleep just fine and pretty quickly but I believe it is the deep sleep (REM) that is what I am lacking.

(11-28-2012 06:57 PM)Sleepster Wrote:  Be patient. I've been on CPAP for a little over a year and am still noticing improvement. It takes time.

Ok, that is a little reassuring Smile.

Quote:Based on your symptoms I was going to suggest that you visit a good ENT surgeon to make sure that there is nothing obviously wrong with your throat or sinuses, such as tonsils.

My theory is that as my OSA developed over the years it got worse at times when I had sinus infections, which in turn made my headaches worse. I thought they were sinus headaches and perhaps they were, but they were definitely made worse by OSA.

I've had three surgeries on my sinuses, all long before I ever got treated or tested for OSA. When my ENT and I finally gave up on sinuses alone causing my headaches I went to a neurologist and began taking amitriptylene 50 mg daily. That was about 10 years ago. For two years it was raised to 100 mg. Then after I began CPAP it was lowered to 25 mg, which I'm still taking now. I still get the headaches but they are less frequent and less severe by far. And I notice that when I don't sleep well the headaches are worse. When I sleep well they go away, something that never happened pre-CPAP therapy.

Yep same sort of thing and putting pressure on the muscles at the back of the neck just under the skull offers a little relief. Trying to sleep, I find, does little to make it go away but at around 8PM it goes of its own accord with just a little pressure, ache remaining in that area (usually behind the left eye for me) like a tenderness.

I will have to do a search fro an ENT then as the system here is for the doctors to refer you to a specialist affiliated to the same medical scheme from a directory. I doubt they know the quality of the specialist.

I would like to know why that area feels like it is sagging as this has only been the case fairly recently. Maybe I am just getting old as I will be turning 40 next year Wink.

RB
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2012 03:42 AM by RimBlock.)
11-28-2012 10:24 PM
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RimBlock Offline

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Post: #14
RE: Ups and downs. My experiences and Suggestions invited.
(11-28-2012 12:09 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  As for the print screen, you don't have to use the ALT key. At least I never do. I use Irfanview to view images. Also free.

[prt scrn] on its own takes a snap of the entire screen.
[ALT] + [prt scrn] take a snap of only the active window.

The advantage being that the task bar at the bottom is not included along with any other windows on the screen at the time. Many a embarrasing screen shot has been posted on-line due to someone spotting something open on the task bar or a half obscured window in the background as someone used [print scrn] on its own and didn't realise Smile.

I never really got on with Irfanview and what with paint, MS picture viewer and MS Office picture editor I can snapshot, past to an image file and manipulate (simple changes like brightness and cropping) without other third party software. Snagit does it all in one though and I use it heavily at work. Makes doing user guides for software so much easier.

RB
11-29-2012 05:32 AM
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zimlich Offline

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Post: #15
RE: Ups and downs. My experiences and Suggestions invited.
RimBlock, even mild sleep apnea can cause terrible symptoms- I know from experience. I think we've gotten too hung up on the "numbers". I don't disagree with anyone who wants to keep close watch of their numbers with software. I think the main consideration is how you feel. Sometimes we don't always get back to our baseline get up and go.
Good to hear from you. Keep us posted, please.
Mary
11-29-2012 09:18 AM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Ups and downs. My experiences and Suggestions invited.
(11-29-2012 09:18 AM)zimlich Wrote:  RimBlock, even mild sleep apnea can cause terrible symptoms- I know from experience. I think we've gotten too hung up on the "numbers". I don't disagree with anyone who wants to keep close watch of their numbers with software. I think the main consideration is how you feel. Sometimes we don't always get back to our baseline get up and go.
Good to hear from you. Keep us posted, please.
Mary

Well, I think both are important. If you have bad numbers, you probably have problems, even if you think you feel fine. Many severe apneacs say they feel just fine before they have a sleep test or do CPAP.

However, you shouldn't obsess over the numbers, especially once you get below 5. Also, you need to look at the details and consider how severe the apneas are and when they happen. A 120 second apnea is a lot more worrysome than a 10 second apnea, but they have the same effect on AHI numbers.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
11-29-2012 03:38 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

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Post: #17
RE: Ups and downs. My experiences and Suggestions invited.
It's important to understand, especially for the typical hosehead who spends at least a couple of decades unknowingly suffering from OSA, that the CPAP machine fixes only the physical symptoms of the condition. That is, the CPAP machine stops for the most part the collapse of the airway. And that's all it does.

Decades of conditioning to wake up to breathe do not always disappear quickly. Tension headaches, habits of worrying and being anxious, and other secondary symptoms of OSA do not go away quickly. Habits of frequent waking, mental attitudes towards others and the inert world around us do not reform magically.

We suffered a lot of damage to our psyches, and it takes time and work to undo all that.

And above all, patience.

But while we're waiting, let's keep track of those leaks and that AHI. I check mine every couple of weeks or so.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2012 04:50 PM by Sleepster.)
11-29-2012 04:47 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #18
RE: Ups and downs. My experiences and Suggestions invited.
(11-29-2012 03:38 PM)archangle Wrote:  A 120 second apnea is a lot more worrysome than a 10 second apnea, but they have the same effect on AHI numbers.
120 sec apnea ... not likely to be around to tell the tale
yes how i feel is more important than numbers
getting decent sleep and sleeping right thru the night with the mask are good signs otherwise all bets off ... back to the drawing board
11-29-2012 04:59 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Ups and downs. My experiences and Suggestions invited.
(11-29-2012 04:59 PM)zonk Wrote:  120 sec apnea ... not likely to be around to tell the tale
yes how i feel is more important than numbers
getting decent sleep and sleeping right thru the night with the mask are good signs otherwise all bets off ... back to the drawing board

One would think so, but 120 second apneas surprisingly common for untreated apnea sufferers during their in-lab PSG sleep tests. Or even people doing CPAP. Especially for central apnea sufferers.

I can only think that a sleeping body is somehow more able to withstand holding your breath for that long. I couldn't imagine doing anything like that while awake.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2012 11:27 PM by archangle.)
11-29-2012 11:26 PM
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JJJ Offline

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Post: #20
RE: Ups and downs. My experiences and Suggestions invited.
(11-29-2012 11:26 PM)archangle Wrote:  I can only think that a sleeping body is somehow more able to withstand holding your breath for that long. I couldn't imagine doing anything like that while awake.

I just timed myself holding my breath sitting in my chair in front of the computer. I took in one big breath and held it. I gave in after one minute 10 seconds, but I probably could have held it another 20 seconds or so if it had been necessary. Afterward my breathing was back to normal in less than 10 seconds. And that was voluntary, not because of apnea.

I couldn't do that while running around, but sitting in a chair or lying in a bed I don't need so much oxygen.

Test yourself and see how long you can voluntarily hold your breath. I suspect you might surprise yourself.
11-30-2012 12:45 AM
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