UARS/FL (PLMS): Yellow/R Lights For So Many Lingering Folks_“Is Bilevel the Answer?"

[mper6794]

...What would look like yours?
G l

[slowriter]

Hi, sheepless
mper, nice charts. interesting.  there's probably a lot more to see in there but offhand I notice you appear to have longer intervals between kicks than me.........Yes, indeed, what I could say is your PLMS is a true periodic kicks all the way through. However, if you go deeper in literature on PLMS, you would eventually conclude the "PLMS" is just a umbrella name for so many options for moves, and, more important, PLMS does not restrict to legs, it may also occurs in upper limbs, such as arms, torso (torso rotation, very often in my case), chin, an so on...... mine PLMS is more like as if I bring my RLS jerks (Webster: jolting, bouncing, thrusting, spamosdic strong motions) to the bed. What I think I have (also with support on literature) is a kind episodes of jerks, within which I can sometimes observe periodiciy, like in some of curves I showed above. My episodes can either can come out of nothing, or can be triggered by respiratory-driven events.
However, you may be eventually more lucky than me: once it appears it would be easier to sleep through true PLMS like yours. Sleep through my jerks is hard, on the contrary!

GL

Hi, slowriter, sheepless, and all

Following up what have been discussing here and elsewhere on your threads, I have kept investigating on better characterization of PLMS, and have struck with AMAZING  VIDEOS, FROM A SLEEP CENTER in Arizona, I think. Dr. Hooper has classified PLMS ON FOUR GRADES, as illustrated in the following links:

I - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRC5ow8v...z&index=52
II- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr-uds1Y...z&index=50
III- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4RJswUb...z&index=51
IV_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Meukfn...z&index=49

I have took advantage of this and tried to infer about my last night moves (attached)

Good luck

That's very helpful!

[sheepless]

thanks for the links. my exposure to plm (and rls) is solely from my own experience so it's good to learn for sure there are varieties not entirely like my own. the videos were also instructive because plm (except maybe level 3) doesn't look quite the same as I imagined.

I'd have said mine is more like level 3 or 4 but my wife (who isn't entirely sure but I'd trust an observer over my guessing) thinks more like level 2.

I learned that plm doesn't occur during REM sleep because we're virtually paralyzed at that stage.

I took the opportunity to look at a dozen or so more plm / rls related videos. info is sometimes contradictory; like most say rls is waking while one said it can occur in sleep as well. personally, I don't see why we wouldn't react in sleep - especially light sleep and sleep transitions - to uncomfortable feelings in our legs, but I also think rls wakefulness is an important distinction from plm and that (at least for me) plm is much more disturbing to sleep.

I'm also confused as to whether there's a relationship between apnea and plm. I don't think so but may have heard/read something to the contrary. because plm and central apnea are said to be central nervous system issues, it makes sense to this layman that ca, at least, might be associated with plm somehow.

speaking of CNS issues, I've had lifelong attention deficit disorder along with apnea so I'm glad to see the medical establishment finally making the connection between them (as I saw in another video); i.e., that cognitive symptoms of sleep deprivation and ADD are similar and that ADD is likely caused or at least worsened by apnea.

I do continue to believe that plm are involuntary, distinctively jerky as opposed to moving and stretching with rls, and are characterized by periodicity or more/less regular intervals between jerks. as a practical matter from a sufferer's point of view, it probably doesn't matter what we call it once it's identified. a polysomnogram and/or video / audio will be best to identify plm but it'd still be useful to identify indicators like my flow rate pattern for each level of plm.

[sheepless]

my wife reported arm movement for the first time last night along with legs so that puts me in level 3. as disruptive as it is, it's still nothing (I assume without a camera, based on wife's reports) compared to some videos of poor souls kicking wildly, broadly and almost violently lifting and swinging their extremities. thank goodness for small favors.

[mper6794]

..that's what it is!!... whe should be happy meanwhile.

[mper6794]

....as you might remember, I am also also a RLS sufferer since kid, beyond PLMS. What looks interesting to me is that sometimes I move as if I had brought moves from sleep, keep on going as toss and turning while awake, almost periodically (attached). And, on the contrary, days in which RLS attack me more substantially, it looks like I bring them to sleep.
.... anyway, what I have been pursuing is sleep efficiency, no matters how many times I awakening (my last fifteen days/hr: 2,8..1,1…2,3…1,5…2,8…3,2…3,0…2,8…2,9…1,4…2,5…3,0..2,6…2,4). Fortunately, I have succeeded on eliminating pretty much all U/RERA (unflagged and/or flagged RERA)-driven awakenings.
GL

[sheepless]

do you have involuntary movements while awake? do you have a sense of whether your sleeping activity is voluntary or involuntary?

playing devil's advocate: I wonder if you should be concerned about the repetitive ca. is it common? you probably have other reasons to suspect plm as the source but couldn't that flow rate chart be interpreted as repetitive ca followed by recovery breaths, independent of plm?

[mper6794]

do you have involuntary movements while awake?...no.  do you have a sense of whether your sleeping activity is voluntary or involuntary....involuntary?

playing devil's advocate:  I wonder if you should be concerned about the repetitive ca. .....no way.... is it common?...no, zero almost every night; this night, as I mentioned, I was experienced on Pregabalin and rapid change on parameters...  you probably have other reasons to suspect plm as the source but couldn't that flow rate chart be interpreted as repetitive ca followed by recovery breaths, independent of plm....no, I don't have?

thanks

[mper6794]

hi, dear folks
Keep on trying on my struggling on convincing lingering-treated people on UARS/FL/RERA, and the significance of this with regard sleep efficiency, I would like to share some pictures of my therapy on what I have been calling U/RERA (unflagged RERA), and how characterize it on waveforms. I think, after some 5 months tackled UARS/FL/RERA I have brought my flagged and unflagged RERA’s to something close to absolute zero, only then I stayed free from their harmful consequences.

Good luck

[mper6794]

and this one......